Royal Bolton Hospital’s £8 million deficit crisis (From This Is Lancashire)

NHS relying on "income" generation and reporting on financial performance will lead only to disaster. If they want to run a self-funding hospital the only option is to privatise it and appoint competent business professionals, not civil servants.

Its no wonder the previous chair Councillor Morris has resigned then ..... rat .... sinking ship...... and now he moves on to another committee how long will it be before that is also in financial difficulties. it is incredible how these people survive in public office by simply "moving on" from one gravy train to another Its time that such board members were made more responsible for their actions (or lack of) In the private sector directors are far more accountable for their actions and even then they get away with all sorts!

The problem is that the NHS is unsustainable. Everybody wants top dollar treatment and nobody wants to pay! There are some hefty earners floating around too.........

Don't give any treatment out to any adult who has never made NI contributions. Problem solved. Simples.

This debt has not just appeared overnight. Was it ever made known why Cliff Morris mysteriously resigned just before it was made public ? This guy is running the Council. Oh dear.....

The thing is Bolton is a poor town, which brings with it the usual health problems, hence larger health costs. The Government insists on making cuts and seems to forget the NHS is dealing with people and not manufacturing, therefore it is difficult to put a cost on treatments provided. All the government wants to do is privatise the NHS therefore making the rich richer and the poor sicker. People who are receiving benefits are as entitled as the rest of us to receive treatment; we don’t live their lives and don’t know why they may not have made NI contributions. The welfare system is our insurance policy that’s why we have to pay into it, we never know when we may need it, I for one would much rather the few who abuse the system get caught for it and the ones who need it and deserve our help get the benefits they need. Don’t make them the latest folk devil, just because the governments got it wrong!

Kevin Turvey wrote:
Don't give any treatment out to any adult who has never made NI contributions. Problem solved. Simples.

Totally agree with these sentiments, unfortunatelly our financial suicidal government(s) allows anyone from around the world who has lived in this country of ours, for 12 months to be elligable for free hospital treatment, according to the BBC Panarama programme recently.

Twowok, why would privatisation make the rich richer ? That defies logic.

Surely those running a private hospital (successfully) would be paid the market rate, and those salaries are only sustainable if the hospital performs financially. It doesn't remove the access to health for those on benefits, or paying via insurance. And what if the rich did get richer, where's the harm in that anyway?

Those who have not performed for the NHS would be removed from their positions, and we can also get rid of the interferring councillors and hangers-on whose sole desire is to be seen as being "influential" and self-congratulating - until they screw things up of course.

And I don't understand why the poor would become sicker. They are (arguably) in receipt of more education and support about health issues than most others.

That many folk choose to binge on burgers, smoke and drink beyond reasonable levels and can not be bothered to walk anywhere, or do any exercise is nothing to do with background or wealth.

Given the monstrous size of the NHS, the demands placed upon it, the level of funding and the complexities which go with the demography and health of the UK's population, I doubt whether any government would find the perfect solution, and we can always find a reason to complain.

Like so many things in life, first principles of reducing waste, loss and cost should be implemented and then the NHS may find itself in a better state of health (forgive the appalling pun!) to move forward.

If that involves privatisation to improve service and reduce costs then where's the harm? The only people worrying about it and complain about it fall into 2 categories:

1. Those who are underperforming and fear the sack or redundancy; and
2. Those who are hung up about wealth and class war.

I don't expect people to agree with my views, but I just wish politicians from all sides would stop using NHS as a cause to champion and patronise. There's no need to consider wealth it is irrelevant. It's degrading and unnecessary.

I still don't understand why the Cheif Executive remains in post long after the Chairman and Director of Finance have gone, Surely as the person with overall authority, she should take overall responsibility. I believe she is by career a nurse. So all of those who harp on about sacking managers and letting the Doctors and Nurses run the hospital take heed. I wouldn't want a Manager treating me, so why would I want a medic managing my health service. Wait til' the GPs get their grubby hands on the cash and see the mess they will make with their parochial take on things.

Wonder how much NI gypsies pay? Or illegal immigrants for that matter? Yet If the had a crash I bet they'd want to use the NHS for help.

Is this almost £8m deficit not the £3.9m profit they expected which somebody had put in the wrong column so it was actually a £3.9m loss? Therefore they were £7.8m over the original budget.

Cathryn C wrote:
Is this almost £8m deficit not the £3.9m profit they expected which somebody had put in the wrong column so it was actually a £3.9m loss? Therefore they were £7.8m over the original budget.

Not to mention that it "could" (the loss) maybe reach as much as 16million and this is not as I read it down to inefficient services and the like but to accounting screw ups by the mysterious "nobody" also at times referred to as "They" (the nameless blameless ones)

This articke and the hospital board are pathetic. They just keep saying that there is a deficit without saying what they plan to do about it.

The brutal truth is :

- the NHS faces infinite demand
- there is limited funding
- so not every ailment can be treated
- the costs will include a huge element of inefficient and non-productive items
- there will be wholesale failure to address these shortcomings
-result: mounting deficits

No need to worry - the intention is that we will not have a district hospital with full A&E facilities for much longer, anyway.

NHS Greater Manchester (abolished as a strategic authority only five years ago, as it was generally seen as superfluous) is now up and running again. Expect everything to be concentrated at Manchester RI and Wythenshawe, with perhaps a little outying work for Royal Bolton and Wigan Infirmary, because of the distances involved.

Now - where is it that Councillor Morris has gone? Ah yes - to chair the Greater Manchester Health & Wellbeing Board. Perhaps he can put in a word for us.

On second thoughts, given your record at home, Cliff ...

SACK THE CHAIRMAN .DISBAND THE COMMITEE .START CHARGING PEOPLE WHO HAVE MOVED TO OUR CUNTRY AND NEVER PAID A DIME TO OUR HEALTH CARE ,AS OUR NEWS PAPER SHOWED US THIS WEEK WITH LYNDA IN TURKEY .WE GET CHARGED WHY NOT IMMIGRANTS

not a good start mr.wakefield,i think you bit off more than you could chew.never mind when you jump ship you wont leave empty handed will you?

Like everything else these day's, too many high earners at the top!

Wasn't there an article this week saying that the hospital had finally met its targets? I'm no maths teacher but it looks to me like its costing over £1m a month to do this.

Hulton Park wrote:
No need to worry - the intention is that we will not have a district hospital with full A&E facilities for much longer, anyway. NHS Greater Manchester (abolished as a strategic authority only five years ago, as it was generally seen as superfluous) is now up and running again. Expect everything to be concentrated at Manchester RI and Wythenshawe, with perhaps a little outying work for Royal Bolton and Wigan Infirmary, because of the distances involved. Now - where is it that Councillor Morris has gone? Ah yes - to chair the Greater Manchester Health & Wellbeing Board. Perhaps he can put in a word for us. On second thoughts, given your record at home, Cliff ...

Hulton Park, sorry to divest you or your views, but NHS Greater Manchester is the clustered PCT, it has nothing to do with hospitals. Hospitals are providers of health care, NHS Greater Manchester is a commissioner, so it has no influance around which hospital operate where.

Likewise the health and wellbeing board is more concerned with overseeing public heath and setting long term stategic direction, not which hospitals provide which services.

NHS Greater Manchester will come to an end on the 31/03/2013 along with all PCT's.

David Lister was absolutely correct in his last posting as you will see next year when the consultations begin. NHS Manchester is reviewing all services under a process called 'Healthier Together'. This includes cutting the number of A+E's to 5,6 or 7 across greater manchester. Do the maths and look at the geography!
If you want to continue to have a full local hospital ( will we keep intensive care, emergency surgery etc if there is no a+e?) then it is time to get behind a local hospital that does some fantastic work. If everybody turns on the hospital we will have a vicious downward spiral and will be going to Salford if we have an emergency at rush hour.
It's time that the public wakes up to what is happening to our NHS.
Bolton is the first of many to be in financial difficulties. It is due to having 5% taken out of the funding year on year. The private sector is only interested in taking the profitable bits. They don't want the complex care that costs lots of money. They'll leave that for an nhs that will no longer be sustainable because all the profitable bits have been hived off.

lets have whip round.

The PCT community services was well in the black before its merge with the Royal Bolton - now my job is in jeopardy because of the mis management by Royal Bolton finance!!!

God help us all - time to ba a rat leaving a sinking ship me thinks!!!!

DaveLister wrote:

Hulton Park wrote:
No need to worry - the intention is that we will not have a district hospital with full A&E facilities for much longer, anyway. NHS Greater Manchester (abolished as a strategic authority only five years ago, as it was generally seen as superfluous) is now up and running again. Expect everything to be concentrated at Manchester RI and Wythenshawe, with perhaps a little outying work for Royal Bolton and Wigan Infirmary, because of the distances involved. Now - where is it that Councillor Morris has gone? Ah yes - to chair the Greater Manchester Health & Wellbeing Board. Perhaps he can put in a word for us. On second thoughts, given your record at home, Cliff ...

Hulton Park, sorry to divest you or your views, but NHS Greater Manchester is the clustered PCT, it has nothing to do with hospitals. Hospitals are providers of health care, NHS Greater Manchester is a commissioner, so it has no influance around which hospital operate where.

Likewise the health and wellbeing board is more concerned with overseeing public heath and setting long term stategic direction, not which hospitals provide which services.

NHS Greater Manchester will come to an end on the 31/03/2013 along with all PCT's.

The government's big plan is to close all but 5 district general hospitals in the northwest and open super centers. Patients will have to travel miles to get treatment and visit relatives. The staff will always have jobs because there will still be the same number of people requiring care but it's patients and their relatives that will have additional travel and all the stress that goes with it.

What's more and one who gets lost at Bolton hospital and struggles to park and complains about the £2 change wants to try visiting Salford Royal or Manchester childrens where parking costs are higher and where you find yourself parked 3 to 4 miles from the department you need to be in.

tigerlilly1 wrote:

DaveLister wrote:

Hulton Park wrote: No need to worry - the intention is that we will not have a district hospital with full A&E facilities for much longer, anyway. NHS Greater Manchester (abolished as a strategic authority only five years ago, as it was generally seen as superfluous) is now up and running again. Expect everything to be concentrated at Manchester RI and Wythenshawe, with perhaps a little outying work for Royal Bolton and Wigan Infirmary, because of the distances involved. Now - where is it that Councillor Morris has gone? Ah yes - to chair the Greater Manchester Health & Wellbeing Board. Perhaps he can put in a word for us. On second thoughts, given your record at home, Cliff ...

Hulton Park, sorry to divest you or your views, but NHS Greater Manchester is the clustered PCT, it has nothing to do with hospitals. Hospitals are providers of health care, NHS Greater Manchester is a commissioner, so it has no influance around which hospital operate where. Likewise the health and wellbeing board is more concerned with overseeing public heath and setting long term stategic direction, not which hospitals provide which services. NHS Greater Manchester will come to an end on the 31/03/2013 along with all PCT's.

The government's big plan is to close all but 5 district general hospitals in the northwest and open super centers. Patients will have to travel miles to get treatment and visit relatives. The staff will always have jobs because there will still be the same number of people requiring care but it's patients and their relatives that will have additional travel and all the stress that goes with it. What's more and one who gets lost at Bolton hospital and struggles to park and complains about the £2 change wants to try visiting Salford Royal or Manchester childrens where parking costs are higher and where you find yourself parked 3 to 4 miles from the department you need to be in.

never had a broblem parking at salford royal myself.

its more expensive than Bolton and the sheer size of the place its very difficult to find your way around if you are not familiar with the site. Also if you livr in Bolton and get a from say Hope hospital to say you loved one is going to die can you get here quick......plainly if you live in Bolton it would be quicker if you only had to get to Farnworth?

you get better treament at salford which is more importment to me,so dont talk rubbish.

macauley wrote:
you get better treament at salford which is more importment to me,so dont talk rubbish.

All well and good but would you say that if you were an elderly person sat at Salford waiting for hours for the patient transport services to come and collect you to bring you home to Bolton or the pensioner without transport being called to the bedside of a dying spouse?

I'd really like to wish the unions taking part in the rally in London next weekend all the best and i hope they manage to to save Bolton's A&E department and Bolton District General Hospital.

What's more Macauley.....if you feel you get better treatment at Salford....it's a good job there is Choose and Book.....it's your choice where you have your treatment but for every one unhappy patient from Bolton there's probably around 8 thousand who are very happy with their treatment it's just The Bolton News the same as any other wont sell it's news papers if it reports that that Mrs Jones was happy with her treatment and Mr Smith is still alive today thanks to them.

My advice to you Macauley.......got to Salford if that what make you happy but don't help and abide removal of that choice for everyone else.

STILL RUBISH.

macauley wrote:
STILL RUBISH.

MOST PEOPLE GO TO BOLTON TROUGH THE CHOOSE AND BOOK BECAUCE THE WAITINT IS SHORTER.I AM A PENSIONER AND BRITISH IF IMIIGRANTS HAD TO PAY THAT HAVE NEVER PAID IN TO THE SYSTEM THEN IT WOULD NOT BE IN THE RED TO THE TUNE IT IS SIMPLE.THATS WHY I THINK YOU STILL TALK RUBBISH.IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT FURTHER PLEASE FEELL FREE.

They should stop treatment for those with self inflicted illness/injuries, such as alcohol, drug related.
Also stop treatment to all those inpatients who sit outside the main hospital entrance smoking.
This would save the trust millions!!
If these people will not help themselves why should we tax payer pay for them??

YOUARE SPOT ON WITH YOUR COMMENTS,I STATED THEM WEEKS AGO BUT THEY STILL ALLOW PEOPLE TO TAKE EQUIPMENT OUT GOING FOR A SMOKE AND GRAG IT IN AND BACK TO THE WARD AND TO ME THE FLASHING LIGHT THING WITH THE GERM GELL IS JUST A JOKE.SO COME ON MR.WAKEFEILD GO OUTSIDE GET A GRIP AND START AT THE BOTTOM TO MAKE SAVINGS.

macauley wrote:

macauley wrote:
STILL RUBISH.

MOST PEOPLE GO TO BOLTON TROUGH THE CHOOSE AND BOOK BECAUCE THE WAITINT IS SHORTER.I AM A PENSIONER AND BRITISH IF IMIIGRANTS HAD TO PAY THAT HAVE NEVER PAID IN TO THE SYSTEM THEN IT WOULD NOT BE IN THE RED TO THE TUNE IT IS SIMPLE.THATS WHY I THINK YOU STILL TALK RUBBISH.IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT FURTHER PLEASE FEELL FREE.

Very confrontational there macauley! what's the shouty block capitals all about? I'm a health service worker and you seen to be missing the following:

FACT: All nhs hospitals have an 18 week care path way so you talk rubbish about 'waiting list's are shorter'

FACT: Bolton hospital checks immigrants entitlement to nhs treatment and only provide care to those who are.....which down to the government nothing what so ever to do with the health service.

FACT: The biggest waste of money in the health service as a whole is actually patients failing to attend appointments the bill for that alone runs into millions of pounds.

And just for your information I work at Hope hospital and would I want to be in the back of an ambulance needing urgent care having to be taken all the way to Hope from Bolton........I could die enroute......I wonder how many people will?

tigerlilly1 wrote:

macauley wrote:

macauley wrote: STILL RUBISH.

MOST PEOPLE GO TO BOLTON TROUGH THE CHOOSE AND BOOK BECAUCE THE WAITINT IS SHORTER.I AM A PENSIONER AND BRITISH IF IMIIGRANTS HAD TO PAY THAT HAVE NEVER PAID IN TO THE SYSTEM THEN IT WOULD NOT BE IN THE RED TO THE TUNE IT IS SIMPLE.THATS WHY I THINK YOU STILL TALK RUBBISH.IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT FURTHER PLEASE FEELL FREE.

Very confrontational there macauley! what's the shouty block capitals all about? I'm a health service worker and you seen to be missing the following: FACT: All nhs hospitals have an 18 week care path way so you talk rubbish about 'waiting list's are shorter' FACT: Bolton hospital checks immigrants entitlement to nhs treatment and only provide care to those who are.....which down to the government nothing what so ever to do with the health service. FACT: The biggest waste of money in the health service as a whole is actually patients failing to attend appointments the bill for that alone runs into millions of pounds. And just for your information I work at Hope hospital and would I want to be in the back of an ambulance needing urgent care having to be taken all the way to Hope from Bolton........I could die enroute......I wonder how many people will?

I THINK ITS YOU IT IS YOU TALKING RUBBISH,BUT THEN AGAIN YOU WOULD WORKING FOR WHO YOU DO,NOT SO MANY WEEKS AGO TRAUMA CASES WERE BEING DIVERTED FROM GOING TO BOLTON SO YOU MUST HAVE A SHORT MEMORY AND PEOPLE WERE IN THE BACK OF AN AMBULANCE AND BEING TAKEN TO HOPE IS THAT NOT A FACT.?

tigerlilly1 wrote:

macauley wrote:

macauley wrote: STILL RUBISH.

MOST PEOPLE GO TO BOLTON TROUGH THE CHOOSE AND BOOK BECAUCE THE WAITINT IS SHORTER.I AM A PENSIONER AND BRITISH IF IMIIGRANTS HAD TO PAY THAT HAVE NEVER PAID IN TO THE SYSTEM THEN IT WOULD NOT BE IN THE RED TO THE TUNE IT IS SIMPLE.THATS WHY I THINK YOU STILL TALK RUBBISH.IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT FURTHER PLEASE FEELL FREE.

Very confrontational there macauley! what's the shouty block capitals all about? I'm a health service worker and you seen to be missing the following: FACT: All nhs hospitals have an 18 week care path way so you talk rubbish about 'waiting list's are shorter' FACT: Bolton hospital checks immigrants entitlement to nhs treatment and only provide care to those who are.....which down to the government nothing what so ever to do with the health service. FACT: The biggest waste of money in the health service as a whole is actually patients failing to attend appointments the bill for that alone runs into millions of pounds. And just for your information I work at Hope hospital and would I want to be in the back of an ambulance needing urgent care having to be taken all the way to Hope from Bolton........I could die enroute......I wonder how many people will?

WONDER WHY YOU HAVE TO REPEAT YOURSELF ON THIS ONE,IS IT BECAUSE YOU LIKE TO READ YOUR OWN COMMENT MORE THAN ONCE.

macauley wrote:

tigerlilly1 wrote:

macauley wrote:

macauley wrote: STILL RUBISH.

MOST PEOPLE GO TO BOLTON TROUGH THE CHOOSE AND BOOK BECAUCE THE WAITINT IS SHORTER.I AM A PENSIONER AND BRITISH IF IMIIGRANTS HAD TO PAY THAT HAVE NEVER PAID IN TO THE SYSTEM THEN IT WOULD NOT BE IN THE RED TO THE TUNE IT IS SIMPLE.THATS WHY I THINK YOU STILL TALK RUBBISH.IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT FURTHER PLEASE FEELL FREE.

Very confrontational there macauley! what's the shouty block capitals all about? I'm a health service worker and you seen to be missing the following: FACT: All nhs hospitals have an 18 week care path way so you talk rubbish about 'waiting list's are shorter' FACT: Bolton hospital checks immigrants entitlement to nhs treatment and only provide care to those who are.....which down to the government nothing what so ever to do with the health service. FACT: The biggest waste of money in the health service as a whole is actually patients failing to attend appointments the bill for that alone runs into millions of pounds. And just for your information I work at Hope hospital and would I want to be in the back of an ambulance needing urgent care having to be taken all the way to Hope from Bolton........I could die enroute......I wonder how many people will?

WONDER WHY YOU HAVE TO REPEAT YOURSELF ON THIS ONE,IS IT BECAUSE YOU LIKE TO READ YOUR OWN COMMENT MORE THAN ONCE.

I have not repeated my at all....still shouty block capitals.....Macaule
y......you go to which ever hospital you want to go to....no one is stopping you but the vast population like to have things like schools shop and hospitals local to where they live. The shouty block capitals are just offensive!

why do you say block capitals are offensive,ii it becauce the real truth stands out more?if so i say to you in capitals.GROW UP.

I will not rise to bullying I'm too old and long in the tooth to be bullied and it's you that is making yourself look daft by continually being offensive. I'm far to mature and clever to trade insults with someone who is plainly miserable and feels every one should should suffer because of their opinions which judging by the comments on the other stories about the the hospital is not an opinion shared by very many people at all.

So on that note Macauley I will leave this thread and hope that you will learn some manners with regard to posting on blogs like this and yes block capitals is the height of rudeness and very offensive. I will rest assured that The Royal Bolton has been around longer than either of us and will still be going strong long after we're gone :)

tigerlilly1 wrote:
I will not rise to bullying I'm too old and long in the tooth to be bullied and it's you that is making yourself look daft by continually being offensive. I'm far to mature and clever to trade insults with someone who is plainly miserable and feels every one should should suffer because of their opinions which judging by the comments on the other stories about the the hospital is not an opinion shared by very many people at all. So on that note Macauley I will leave this thread and hope that you will learn some manners with regard to posting on blogs like this and yes block capitals is the height of rudeness and very offensive. I will rest assured that The Royal Bolton has been around longer than either of us and will still be going strong long after we're gone :)

o.k.by me,leave this thread if you so wish but remember we all can have our opinion,it is called free speach,as for being bullied by me,call me daft and you being mature dont make yourself look daft as you say i am far from it.looks like hit a sore point with you on this,wonder why.?