Call for 20mph zones across Blackburn and Darwen
9:00am Friday 24th February 2012 in News
By Jon Livesey, Reporter
REDUCE ACCIDENTS Road speeds could be set at 20mph
A CAMPAIGN has been launched to introduce a 20mph speed limit in every one of Blackburn with Darwen’s residential roads.
Liberal Democrat councillors said they were taking the action in response to the borough’s higher-than-average accident rate and complaints about speed humps.
Blackburn with Darwen has a number of 20mph zones, but campaigners want the local authority to mirror Lancashire County Council’s commitment to bringing in a lower limit in every residential road.
Coun David Foster, leader of the Lib Dems in Blackburn with Darwen, believes it would result in fewer accidents and injuries.
He said: "We have a higher-than-average accident rate in the borough and studies suggest that the introduction of a 20mph limit would reduce accidents by 20-to-30 per cent.
“These 20mph speed limits are not new and we do have some areas in the borough which have a 20mph limit.
“One of the drawbacks in the past has been the introduction of road humps in 20mph areas.
“This has made it expensive and unpopular with some people.
“Regulations have now changed and road humps are not required.”
Last month the Lancashire Telegraph revealed that boy-racers in the Highercroft area of Blackburn were competing to get speeds of 100mph to register on an interactive sign in a 20mph zone.
Coun Foster said: “We don't expect the whole of the borough to have the limit overnight, but we want a commitment from the council to have a rolling programme to see them introduced eventually across the whole of the borough.
“We would expect them to target high accident areas initially.”
Coun Foster said he would expect there to be a period of consultation with residents before a 20mph limit was introduced in their area.
Comments(35)
happycyclist
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9:28am Fri 24 Feb 12
jimpy0
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10:00am Fri 24 Feb 12
jimpy0
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10:07am Fri 24 Feb 12
Tuo Neak
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10:08am Fri 24 Feb 12
Hena
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10:31am Fri 24 Feb 12
living the end times in BB1
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10:39am Fri 24 Feb 12
darwenTower
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11:33am Fri 24 Feb 12
Currently the preferred method is to step into traffic and hope that it stops.
s_smith
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12:00pm Fri 24 Feb 12
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There isn't any proof that 20mph zones on their own reduce accidents and given that speed is not the major factor in the majority of urban pedestrian/vehicle collisions then I am not quite sure what these councillors expect to achieve.
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If it is true about the boy racers in Highercroft (and I dont believe it is, given that the signs in question can not even display 100mph) then it just goes to show that 20mph zones dont actually work, given that much of Highercroft is already a 20mph zone.
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This just smacks of the "something must be done" brigade. We could make the whole borough a 20mph zone and it would not have a statistically significant long-term effect on casualties - that is a certain fact.
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Take for instance the 50mph limits on the main country roads in the area - have these cut casualties? No. The A675 is still regarded as one of the most dangerous in the country - but since it was resurfaced last year have there been as many accidents? Look at the 30mph at Bull Hill... people ignore that one because it simply shouldnt be 30mph; it is not built up enough and it is difficult for drivers to choose the correct speed if the road is of the wrong character.
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Until the councillors and the officers realise that it is good road design and good road maintenance that keeps casualties to an acceptable level, only then will real inroads be made in to the level of carnage on the roads.
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It is not difficult, by using google to find appropriate research on the benefits or otherwise of speed limits, driver behaviour and the way drivers respond to road layouts.
Pan-cake
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12:43pm Fri 24 Feb 12
s_smith wrote:Is your first name Sensible? An excellent critique of these bonkers plans.
Well, it would be interesting to find out exactly what the average speeds actually are in these areas before spending money on introducing 20mph zones. If average speeds are already around the 20mph mark, introducing a 20mph zone does nothing except provide a psychological comfort blanket.
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There isn't any proof that 20mph zones on their own reduce accidents and given that speed is not the major factor in the majority of urban pedestrian/vehicle collisions then I am not quite sure what these councillors expect to achieve.
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If it is true about the boy racers in Highercroft (and I dont believe it is, given that the signs in question can not even display 100mph) then it just goes to show that 20mph zones dont actually work, given that much of Highercroft is already a 20mph zone.
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This just smacks of the "something must be done" brigade. We could make the whole borough a 20mph zone and it would not have a statistically significant long-term effect on casualties - that is a certain fact.
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Take for instance the 50mph limits on the main country roads in the area - have these cut casualties? No. The A675 is still regarded as one of the most dangerous in the country - but since it was resurfaced last year have there been as many accidents? Look at the 30mph at Bull Hill... people ignore that one because it simply shouldnt be 30mph; it is not built up enough and it is difficult for drivers to choose the correct speed if the road is of the wrong character.
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Until the councillors and the officers realise that it is good road design and good road maintenance that keeps casualties to an acceptable level, only then will real inroads be made in to the level of carnage on the roads.
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It is not difficult, by using google to find appropriate research on the benefits or otherwise of speed limits, driver behaviour and the way drivers respond to road layouts.
Don't forget that there are jobs attached to the programme. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
255.255.255.0
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1:21pm Fri 24 Feb 12
jimpy0 wrote:stereotyping are we.. why dobnt you read the full article properly, 'Last month the Lancashire Telegraph revealed that boy-racers in the Highercroft area of Blackburn were competing to get speeds of 100mph to register on an interactive sign in a 20mph zone. ' ****
Why not sort out the REAL issues in this town instead of faffing and wasting money WE DO NOT HAVE !!!!!!!!!
255.255.255.0
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1:22pm Fri 24 Feb 12
jimpy0 wrote:stereotyping are we.. why dobnt you read the full article properly, 'Last month the Lancashire Telegraph revealed that boy-racers in the Highercroft area of Blackburn were competing to get speeds of 100mph to register on an interactive sign in a 20mph zone. ' ****
also correct me if wrong but the pic shows the brookhouse area - predominantly asian - and we all know how they drive ;)
Pan-cake
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2:05pm Fri 24 Feb 12
255.255.255.0 wrote:So the boy racers in newly restricted areas will cease their antisocial and dangerous activities because you remove a tin disc with 30 painted on it and replace it with one with 20 painted on it? Particularly with zero enforcement in prospect. Your 'aving a larf!!
jimpy0 wrote:stereotyping are we.. why dobnt you read the full article properly, 'Last month the Lancashire Telegraph revealed that boy-racers in the Highercroft area of Blackburn were competing to get speeds of 100mph to register on an interactive sign in a 20mph zone. ' ****
Why not sort out the REAL issues in this town instead of faffing and wasting money WE DO NOT HAVE !!!!!!!!!
olbertz2002
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2:34pm Fri 24 Feb 12
s_smith
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2:47pm Fri 24 Feb 12
olbertz2002 wrote:Why? Have you tried driving along there when the kids are coming and going? You would be lucky to hit 10mph, let alone 20 - and that is a good thing.
its worse on shadsworth road 30 zone near an infant school. i was crossing the zebra crossing yesterday and had to step back due to someone speeding and had to slam on the breaks, that road should be a 20 near schools!
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But why, outside of those hours should it be a 20mph limit when it is perfectly safe to travel at 30? All it does is devalue the effectiveness of speed limits in general. Familiarity breeds contempt?
s_smith
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2:58pm Fri 24 Feb 12
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It is all psychological; it keeps residents quiet, it makes the council look like its doing something about "speeders" and it pacifies the road safety lobby. None of it changes the fact that very rarely are traffic speeds in 20mph zones significantly changed (the "before" figures are usually around 20mph or lower anyway).
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One project to look at is Portsmouth, where KSI's increased after the introduction of the 20mph zone and average traffic speeds fell by just over 1mph and even less than that in some places. Is that REALLY value for money? Especially when there are dangerous junctions which can be totally eradicated or altered for less money giving greater benefits for ALL road users.
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Have BwD studied the effects of their existing 20mph zones? Are they any safer than they were before? Have speeds fallen? How do they compare to similar areas with 30mph limits?
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My gut feeling tells me that all things being equal, there is no difference whatsoever and that the zones are mere political pandering.
woolywords
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4:57pm Fri 24 Feb 12
At that time, I lived on Altom St, just a few yards from it's junction with Limbrick and it used to take me at least 10 minutes to get into the street.
If mosque/madrassa times by virtue of the time of year coincided, I used to abandon my car on Wellington St as it was total gridlock...
Yet, in the 2 years I lived there, 7 children were injured by the traffic, 3 of these while cars were reversing to make a turn.
In each of these incidents speed was not the issue but solely due to carelessness.
On Limbrick, there is a speed indicator matrix, just like the one at Highercroft, admittedly it's on a hill but that should make no matter. What does is the fact, as reported in this article, some see it as a challenge to thier driving skills or lack thereof. Again, in the same period as mentioned earlier, another 9 cars were involved in 'accidents', fortunately only requiring a tow truck and not an ambulance.
It used to be my habit, along with my mate, to have a meal in Shandar, where we would watch people race each other around the block formed by Victoria, Randall Sts and Whalley Range.
The start/finish line being the zebra crossing on Whalley Range. So for anyone to spend my money on signage in any area needs to live in the area before they make the decision.
It's funny how we have all the people driving high perfomance or tweaked cars, yet the number of people in this area owning the RAC Competitors Licence couldn't match the number of Smarties in a tube.
Yet we have all these smarties and a few tubes to spare, showing off thier driving skills except when it snows...
And if you can find anything racist in this, 'you are a better man than I am..'
darwen sense
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7:20pm Fri 24 Feb 12
MrMungus
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8:44pm Fri 24 Feb 12
ste.g
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8:47pm Fri 24 Feb 12
how are you going to enforce a 20mph limit when no laws are being broken?
Keep Darwen Green
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10:56pm Fri 24 Feb 12
As I mentioned before if you want to reduce accidents just ban the under 25s from driving and make them use public transport sorted
blackburnmum
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8:48am Sat 25 Feb 12
philmoulden
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9:07am Sat 25 Feb 12
louderfasterlonger
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10:24am Sat 25 Feb 12
Do NOT spend our council tax on expensive consultation processes.
louderfasterlonger
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10:29am Sat 25 Feb 12
Keep Darwen Green wrote:You have said this time and again KDG..... perhaps you have a point.... my kids won't be learning to drive at my expense at 17 as I did.
Better to just fill the pot holes instead then we can all drive a 30 nice and safely.
As I mentioned before if you want to reduce accidents just ban the under 25s from driving and make them use public transport sorted
It's nothing to do with my fear for their safety though, but because they will expect me to pay their insurance at around £3000 per year.
Keep Darwen Green
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10:43am Sat 25 Feb 12
louderfasterlonger wrote:The latest money making scam from the insurance companies, I'm actually suprised there are any young drivers at all. I wonder if they pay councils not to fill pot holes? What happened to the pot hole watch scheme set up by the telegraph? has it fallen down a hole? So far in the last 2 years I've had all four suspension springs changed because they had snapped. I don't speed, I have no points yet the bottom of my car has nearly been ripped off on many an occasion. I don't have it in for under 25s its just that they keep killing themselves by driving like maniacs. I like young people and I want them to live a long time:0)
Keep Darwen Green wrote:You have said this time and again KDG..... perhaps you have a point.... my kids won't be learning to drive at my expense at 17 as I did.
Better to just fill the pot holes instead then we can all drive a 30 nice and safely.
As I mentioned before if you want to reduce accidents just ban the under 25s from driving and make them use public transport sorted
It's nothing to do with my fear for their safety though, but because they will expect me to pay their insurance at around £3000 per year.
s_smith
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12:57pm Sat 25 Feb 12
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I wouldn't be worrying about under 25's my good man...
Keep Darwen Green
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3:27pm Sat 25 Feb 12
s_smith wrote:Sorry but I tend to watch the road for under 25 maniac drivers hence missing the holes but having no accidents with other cars. I pay my road tax and expect the highways to be maintained such that I don't have to look for holes in the road, sometimes they are impossible to avoid without going onto the other side which is impossible if something is coming the other way. So on that score I think you are wrong. The main problem is. as in the photo, there are too many cars on the road, cars parked both sides on narrow streets is ridiculous, one side should be double yellowed, the other side should be ample.
KDG, it says a lot about your driving if you cannot keep a good enough lookout and choose a correct speed to avoid hitting holes that damage your vehicle.
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I wouldn't be worrying about under 25's my good man...
unbelievable
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10:10pm Sat 25 Feb 12
Yep - the weardie-beardie brigade .
So , they want us to save the planet , by using less fuel , and driving at 20mph .
Hmmm....
Drive at 30mph , probably in 3rd or 4th gear .
Drive at 20mph , probably in 2nd or 3rd gear .
So - on a given mileage - you are using more petrol/diesel .
Very well thought out Libbies .
Matches your "saving-the-planet" ideas by not using deoderants - come on , wearing socks and sandals ?
Bit of soap won't hurt .
martindonnelly
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8:29am Sun 26 Feb 12
jack daniels
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10:37am Sun 26 Feb 12
Keep Darwen Green wrote:You criticise young people for their driving yet you can't even drive yourself. In all my time behind the wheel I've never damaged the bottom of me car or replaced my suspension. It sounds more like careless driving on your part.
louderfasterlonger wrote:The latest money making scam from the insurance companies, I'm actually suprised there are any young drivers at all. I wonder if they pay councils not to fill pot holes? What happened to the pot hole watch scheme set up by the telegraph? has it fallen down a hole? So far in the last 2 years I've had all four suspension springs changed because they had snapped. I don't speed, I have no points yet the bottom of my car has nearly been ripped off on many an occasion. I don't have it in for under 25s its just that they keep killing themselves by driving like maniacs. I like young people and I want them to live a long time:0)
Keep Darwen Green wrote:You have said this time and again KDG..... perhaps you have a point.... my kids won't be learning to drive at my expense at 17 as I did.
Better to just fill the pot holes instead then we can all drive a 30 nice and safely.
As I mentioned before if you want to reduce accidents just ban the under 25s from driving and make them use public transport sorted
It's nothing to do with my fear for their safety though, but because they will expect me to pay their insurance at around £3000 per year.
english rose 1
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8:20pm Sun 26 Feb 12
Your ferret stinks wrote:YFS - don't have a go at BwDC for this - it is only the idea of the Lib-Dem leader - the same guy who voted for the one way bus lane from Darwen-Blackburn !
Exactly how would this be policed? ever tried to drive a flash motor at 20mph?
So that means less people coming to town then, rendering the Mall a waste of money...my word BwDC you really do hate drivers don't you?
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What you really mean is that the Lib-Dems on BwDC hate drivers ?
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As has been said above it would be way too expensive to introduce (because of the cost of signage) and enforcement would be virtually impossible - made worse by the ConDem cuts of 20% to the police budget !
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In addition there are only 6 Lib-Dem Councillors on BwDC - which is likely to reduce after the May election.
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So this idea has no chance of being implemented.
Your ferret stinks
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4:04pm Mon 27 Feb 12
english rose 1 wrote:ER1 Yes guess your right on that.
Your ferret stinks wrote:YFS - don't have a go at BwDC for this - it is only the idea of the Lib-Dem leader - the same guy who voted for the one way bus lane from Darwen-Blackburn !
Exactly how would this be policed? ever tried to drive a flash motor at 20mph?
So that means less people coming to town then, rendering the Mall a waste of money...my word BwDC you really do hate drivers don't you?
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What you really mean is that the Lib-Dems on BwDC hate drivers ?
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As has been said above it would be way too expensive to introduce (because of the cost of signage) and enforcement would be virtually impossible - made worse by the ConDem cuts of 20% to the police budget !
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In addition there are only 6 Lib-Dem Councillors on BwDC - which is likely to reduce after the May election.
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So this idea has no chance of being implemented.
On another point why are there more and more streets being closed to Joe Public and made solely for buses and taxis because before long we are all going to have to apply for a taxi licence if we ever want to drive into Blackburn town centre! and they have just spent all that money on the Mall....seems a bit strange.
britguy
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5:31pm Mon 27 Feb 12
With all that is wrong at the moment only the sandle wearing Liberals could come up with this. We cant fill the potholes, services are being cut,the police force is being cut, hospital budgets are being cut and the Liberals answer....lets spend money on 20 mph signs that most will ignore.
It could only come from the drips in the Liberal party.
But I tell you what, I bet it goes through because this comes from a higher authority than the libetral party.
SirSteve
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12:42am Tue 28 Feb 12
unbelievable wrote:A win-win situation for the gov., you'll use more fuel trying to keep below the limit, which equals more tax revenue, and they'll fine more "speeders".
Well - the Liberal-Democrats are at it again .
Yep - the weardie-beardie brigade .
So , they want us to save the planet , by using less fuel , and driving at 20mph .
Hmmm....
Drive at 30mph , probably in 3rd or 4th gear .
Drive at 20mph , probably in 2nd or 3rd gear .
So - on a given mileage - you are using more petrol/diesel .
Very well thought out Libbies .
Matches your "saving-the-pla
net" ideas by not using deoderants - come on , wearing socks and sandals ?
Bit of soap won't hurt .
Also, the "higher than average" accident rate wouldn't have anything to do with all the crash for cash scams would it?
On the issue of speed bumps, if they say they are no longer required, why did they repair all the ones on Rothesay road before they filled in the pot-holes there, even though it's already a 20 limit? Isuspect this has nothing to do with safety and all to do with bleeding motorists dry... again.
Your ferret stinks says...
9:10am Fri 24 Feb 12
So that means less people coming to town then, rendering the Mall a waste of money...my word BwDC you really do hate drivers don't you?