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VOTE and VIDEO: ‘Order the shrieking Mosquito to buzz off’
9:32am Wednesday 13th February 2008
Comments (65)A YOUTH club boss has backed a call to ban a device to disperse young people by giving out a high-pitched sound.
Jeremy Glover, chief executive of Bolton Lads and Girls Club, said the Mosquito device is not the answer to the problem of youngsters hanging about on streets.
He said: "It is a sad indictment on us, as adults, if the best we can come up with to solve the problem is to introduce a noise to move them on. If this is the best we can do, my heart weeps."
Mr Glover's comments have echoed those of the Children's Commissioner for England, Professor, Sir Al Aynsley-Green, who has just launched a campaign called "Buzz Off", supported by civil liberties groups, calling for a ban on Mosquitos.
The gadget exploits young people's ability to hear very high frequencies, a power which declines once they reach their 20s.
Campaigners say an estimated 3,500 Mosquitos are in use in England to disperse children and young people from hanging around in parks, shopping centres and shops.
However, Sir Al Aynsley-Green is concerned about an "emerging gap" between the young and the old.
He said many old people even had a hatred of the young and argued that the Mosquito demonised children.
Sir Al said: "These devices are indiscriminate and target all children and young people, including babies, regardless of whether they are behaving or misbehaving."
He now hopes to construct a map of all the Mosquitos in use and is urging people to look at tackling the root cause of the problem - which he believes is that children have nowhere else to go.
Civil rights group Liberty has attacked the use of Mosquitoes, saying they indiscriminately effect all young people, including babies.
Jeremy Glover, of Bolton Lads and Girls Club, said more youth clubs are need across the country, adding: "Adults need to do more for young people. Youngsters want somewhere to meet their friends and have fun, somewhere they feel safe and can talk to adults if they want to. That is what we provide.
"Over the last two years there has been a lot of bad press about young people. Adults have been talking about standing up to young people but this is the wrong way to go about it. It just creates more ill feeling," said Mr Glover.
Simon Buckley, the managing director at Cheshire CCTV, which installs Mosquitos and has a branch in Bromley Cross, said: "People put the Mosquito on properties because of things like malicious vandalism and I think the device is warranted if it is in the right places.
"I do not perceive it as being a nuisance to anybody other than youths loitering in one place who should not be there and who can be a nuisance to the building owner and the public.
"There are youth clubs, community centres and parks available for them. This is not about targeting anybody - it is about protecting buildings."
However, the National Autistic Society has voiced concern about the effects the device may have on people with autism.
Spokesman Benet Middleton said: "Our helpline has received calls from people who have been adversely affected by the Mosquito system and who are worried by the distress it may cause to people with autism."
Last year, Kathleen Marshall, the Children's Commissioner in Scotland, launched a similar campaign north of the border.
Backing the English campaign yesterday, she said: "Young people have a right to assemble and socialise with their friends, without being treated as criminals."
The Mosquito's legality is being called into question and its creator, Howard Stapleton, from South Wales, has said a test court case may be the only way to establish its legal status.
He said: "People talk about infringing human rights but what about the human rights of the shopkeeper who is seeing his business collapse because teenagers are driving customers away?"
He would like to see a fair use code drawn up to ensure responsible use of Mosquitos.
"We tell shopkeepers to use it when they have a problem. I would be more than happy to introduce a contract which stipulates to shopkeepers how it can be used," Mr Stapleton said.
Mosquitos - the facts
- The Mosquito was introduced to this country in 2005
- It was invented by former British Aerospace engineer Howard Stapleton after his daughter was intimidated by a gang of boys outside a shop near to their South Wales home
- The device is manufactured by Compound Security Systems and it is estimated there are around 3,500 of them being used across England
- The Mosquito emits an ultrasonic sound similar to that of a mosquito and can only be heard by young people because of the inevitable deterioration of hearing with age
- Some youngsters are recording the sound of the Mosquito on to their mobile telephones so they can leave their phones switched on in class and their teachers will not hear the high-pitched ring.
Your Say YourThis Is Lancashire
bobbie, Bolton says...
10:19am Wed 13 Feb 08
chas, suffolk says...
10:24am Wed 13 Feb 08
Capt.Farnworth, Farnworth says...
11:02am Wed 13 Feb 08
We've had all their interjections in the 70's and 80's and look where we,ve ended up.
King Eric, says...
11:04am Wed 13 Feb 08
chas, suffolk says...
11:43am Wed 13 Feb 08
King Eric, says...
11:54am Wed 13 Feb 08
chas, suffolk says...
12:03pm Wed 13 Feb 08
pip, bolton says...
12:08pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Sun Tzu, says...
12:08pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Those caught breaking the curfew would be shipped of to newly built borstals. Each breach of curfew would result in increasing length of sentence.
Rocky, Bowton says...
12:24pm Wed 13 Feb 08
King Eric wrote:
Should bring a noise out to speed up the doddering pensioners in supermarkets.
You will be old one day.
When you're unable to walk properly because you're infirm let's see how cope.
chas, suffolk says...
12:34pm Wed 13 Feb 08
steve, bolton says...
12:42pm Wed 13 Feb 08
bobbie, Bolton says...
12:52pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Look at all those boys who killed gary newlove. If you choose to do such a discusting act u have choosen to loose any rights you have had! just as you have choosen to take away someone elses right to life. your life should be taken from you! prison till the day you die!!
This is the only way to stop the younge teenagers from killing each other and other people!
RagReader, Horwich says...
1:14pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:Good grief!, I agree with Chas, I'll be sending him a Valentine next.
Let's get this right. Young thugs can stand outside a shop causing a lot of noise and harassing a shopkeeper, but if the shopkeeper replies with a little bit of noise of his own, that is against the thugs civil rights.
PA Fitzsimmons, says...
1:19pm Wed 13 Feb 08
A group of youths who are stood outside their local newsagents buying coke and sweets is not the same as a gang of hoodies hassling for booze and fags.
I appreciate it's hard to tell the difference. If kids complain they've no where to go then the good kids as well as the bad one's will hang around in groups somewhere.
And for that reason a device like this is indiscrimate
It's all a question of parenting! Pure and simple.
If you as a parent show such lack of interest in your child to let them wander the streets till all hours and have no idea where and what they get upto then you deserve as much punishment, if not more than your child!
RagReader, Horwich says...
1:29pm Wed 13 Feb 08
If they are only there to buy pop and sweets they won't be staying hanging about, not the same thing.
chas, suffolk says...
1:38pm Wed 13 Feb 08
I appreciate it's hard to tell the difference. If kids complain they've no where to go then the good kids as well as the bad one's will hang around in groups somewhere.YOU may find it difficult to know the difference, but sensible people do. Most do not hassle the shopkeeper.
Andrew, Bury says...
1:59pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Sun Tzu wrote:Ah, a blanket all kids are bad and can't be out after 7. Brilliant. My kids are under 16 and I'm not having a totalitarian state telling them they can't go out of an evening. I trust your tingue is firmly in cheek otherwise your head must be firnly up....
I suggest a curfew on all under 16, after 7pm, unless out accompanied by parents. Those caught breaking the curfew would be shipped of to newly built borstals. Each breach of curfew would result in increasing length of sentence.
What a load of old nonsense and vitriol being spouted once again. Bet the bitterest posters here can't remember being young. Certainly don't have any meaningful interaction with kids.
Andrew, Bury says...
2:01pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Rocky wrote:I think you may be missing the point Eric is making - that you cannot generalise, as people here are doing so capably.
King Eric wrote: Should bring a noise out to speed up the doddering pensioners in supermarkets.You will be old one day. When you're unable to walk properly because you're infirm let's see how cope.
Andrew, Bury says...
2:02pm Wed 13 Feb 08
bobbie wrote:They have lost their right to liberty - and for some time given minimum tariffs determined. Comparing the Newlove killers to kids generally is not terrifically helpful is it.
People should loose all there civil and human rights when commiting serious crimes! If people cannot live by the laws provided then they should loose all there right! Look at all those boys who killed gary newlove. If you choose to do such a discusting act u have choosen to loose any rights you have had! just as you have choosen to take away someone elses right to life. your life should be taken from you! prison till the day you die!! This is the only way to stop the younge teenagers from killing each other and other people!
Reader, Horwich says...
2:07pm Wed 13 Feb 08
There are good kids. Some of them have been meantioned on here going to South Africa. Only the bad ones seem to overtake the paper with crimes they have caused.
Andrew, Bury says...
2:11pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Reader wrote:Most kids are good. I see that even the South Africa story has attracted a bitter, twisted comment - and these sad, bitter hate filled people have the cheek demonise kids.
I agree Andrew. There are good kids. Some of them have been meantioned on here going to South Africa. Only the bad ones seem to overtake the paper with crimes they have caused.
spice, bolton says...
2:21pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas, suffolk says...
2:22pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas, suffolk says...
2:28pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Andrew, Bury says...
2:34pm Wed 13 Feb 08
No, second thoughts, don't go out. The streets will be safer whilst you're confining hatred to internet comment sections!
Andrew, Bury says...
2:35pm Wed 13 Feb 08
"It is a sad indictment on us, as adults, if the best we can come up with to solve the problem is to introduce a noise to move them on. If this is the best we can do, my heart weeps."
chas, suffolk says...
2:41pm Wed 13 Feb 08
spice, bolton says...
2:55pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Berni, Deane says...
2:58pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Reader, Horwich says...
2:59pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Andrew, Bury says...
3:16pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Reader wrote:Andrew is saying most kids are not thugs. The vast majority. Throwing in the Newloive case ina story about apparent anti-social behaviour is absurd as is no-one bothering to think about what things like a Mosquito (or birching, the old staple thrown out again as if it works) actually achieve. They don't preventr anti-social behaviour.
I dont think Andrew was meaning that. He was just stating that not all kids are little thugs.
Makes me laugh that people post here saying kids show no respect and tghose very same people show no respect to others when posting on here - suicides and untimely deaths are commented up from a position of extraordinary ignorance and with zero respect for the bereaved.
Perhaps people might consider their own behaviour before demonising others.
chas, suffolk says...
3:18pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Andrew, Bury says...
3:26pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:So you want me to pass judgement on all acts of violence and anti-social behaviour committed by young people? How does that work. As I said on the ASBO thread, if people of whatever age have committed a crime they should be charged with it and dealt with by the courts. The justice system should themn not just punish but endeavour to redice the risk of reoffending, something that the has never been achieved system wide.
Reader. Andrew never gives his views on what to do with young thugs. He only preaches that not all kids are bad.
The idea of a curfew at 7 for all under 16s is, I hope, as repellent to everyone else as it is to me.
But fundamentally all of this is addressing symptoms, not causes. I'm unapologetically more interested in reducing such behaviour rather than having to deal with it. With regards to young people we need to much better fund youth services - which are criminally underfunded - and tackle the issues of deprivation (which affects education, health and so on), lack of opportunity and inequality which are at the heart of many of society's ills. We need to break the cycle of deprivation which this government is showing precious little interest in doing - neither did previous ones. And, yes, we need to take individual resaponsibility.
It's complex, not simple as the hang em and flog em one liners seem to think.
kieanders, bolton says...
3:31pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:almost chas, i think what he is saying is that because most kids are good, we shouldn't punish all of them. this device is indescriminate.
I think what Andrew is saying is that because most kids are good, we shouldn't punish any of them, even the thugs.
However, i can see where it might be useful, when a shopkeeper is experiencing trouble, on building sites, old peoples homes etc. there needs to be guidelines/protocol set up as to the use of these. it could be similar to the CCTV regs that are currently in place.
But just to have them spread across town indiscriminantly, forcing young people to migrate from one place to another, not be able to go in shops or hang around with mates would be wrong. we should be linking the use of this device when appropriate, to targetted outreach and detached youth work, offering on street support for youth workers, and engaging with youths where they feel comfortable, find out what they want and how we can support them to help themselves!
chas, suffolk says...
3:51pm Wed 13 Feb 08
if people of whatever age have committed a crime they should be charged with it and dealt with by the courts.Even those under 10yo, who are too young to be charged. Under 16s, I understand, cannot be fined for dropping litter. Stop generalising.
Andrew, Bury says...
3:52pm Wed 13 Feb 08
:-)
kieanders, bolton says...
4:02pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:i thought that they could not accept a spot fine, but they can be charged for it if necessary. not sure though, i'm afraid.
Andrew wrote.if people of whatever age have committed a crime they should be charged with it and dealt with by the courts.Even those under 10yo, who are too young to be charged. Under 16s, I understand, cannot be fined for dropping litter. Stop generalising.
The courts should be free to deal with crimes, by anyone fo anyage, with appropriate consequences for offenders. these consequences should differ according to age, mental state etc. for example if an under 10 stole something from a shop, parents could be reasonably asked to pay for the cost of the item. for serious crimes, as with the bulger killers, they could be put into protective custody. there are options out there, the courts just don't seem to be free or confident enough to make the decisions.
Andrew, Bury says...
4:05pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:What would you do with the under 10s Charles? Flog them? Stone them? Hang them?
Andrew wrote.if people of whatever age have committed a crime they should be charged with it and dealt with by the courts.Even those under 10yo, who are too young to be charged. Under 16s, I understand, cannot be fined for dropping litter. Stop generalising.
We're talking small kids here.
Fantastic though how in order to justify ever more barbarism the isloted - but horrific - case of Gary Newlove is thrown in. Then we jump to under 10s.
Maybe Charles you could think and ask what YOU can do to make life better. What contribution YOU can make to society beyond calling for everyone to be flogged.
amosc99, Overseas says...
4:07pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:you twisted what Andrew was actually saying (nothing new there!!!!!!)
I think what Andrew is saying is that because most kids are good, we shouldn't punish any of them, even the thugs.
To Tarnish all children with a bad label when the MAJORITY are well behaved is complete nonsense. Like adults all children have to be treated INDEPENDENTLY from one another.
Its like saying all scousers are car thieves or all southerners are racist, ageist bigots who rather twist what other people say then actually come out an opinion of their own without slagging off a whole host of other people!!!
Everyone is unique and as such need to be treaty differently!!!
If the paper was full of good stories that children did - this type of talk would be completely different - and yet people take what is in the paper to be true for EVERY child.
Saying that - how much are these Mosquito things - wouldn't mind one outside corner shop where I got beat up by a group of teenagers (about 10 of them) and they got off sctt-free because they lived in a care home - DARCY LEVER!!!! ?(and I ended up with ballooned face.) But at least I know that not every child is like that!!!
chas, suffolk says...
4:13pm Wed 13 Feb 08
What would you do with the under 10s Charles? Flog them? Stone them? Hang them?No. Fancy coming up with such rubbish. A few seconds of a mosquito wouldn't do a lot of harm though, as they are used to a lot of noise. When have I said everyone should be flogged?
We're talking small kids here.
chas, suffolk says...
4:20pm Wed 13 Feb 08
To Tarnish all children with a bad label when the MAJORITY are well behaved is complete nonsense. Like adults all children have to be treated INDEPENDENTLY from one anotherWe agreed this hours ago. Go back to sleep. So you agree with the devices!
spice, bolton says...
4:40pm Wed 13 Feb 08
kieanders, bolton says...
4:44pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:the devices don't treat young people independently, they affect everyone under 25, including babies and toddlers. if you agree that young people should be treated independently, then you should also agree that the devices need to be monitored and only used as a last resort seterrent and in conjunction with other intervention strategies.
Amos. wrote.To Tarnish all children with a bad label when the MAJORITY are well behaved is complete nonsense. Like adults all children have to be treated INDEPENDENTLY from one anotherWe agreed this hours ago. Go back to sleep. So you agree with the devices!
kieanders, bolton says...
4:50pm Wed 13 Feb 08
spice wrote:society shows us that it is not the "spoilt kids" who commit these crimes.
Andrew,in your earlier post you bring up the matter of deprivation,are you saying that because these kids have been deprived of certain things earlier in their lives they turn to crime,I know plenty of kids who didn't have everthing they wanted ,and were short of loads of things in their lives ,that have turned out to be great teenagers,not going out robbing and mugging folks,so it could well be the spoilt kids that have done just that.
it is usually those in deprived areas, with reduced life chances, such as work, stable family etc.
You are right, however, to say that just because a child grows up in these conditions shouldn't and more often than not doesn't, end up in antisocial and criminal behaviour.
Kids should be afforded the same chances in life, regardless of parentage, area or school. academic acheivement should shape a persons choice of career, but not reduce opportunity to learn or develop.
Life is not that way inclined unfortunately.
chas, suffolk says...
5:04pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Andrew, Bury says...
5:08pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:What does a mosquito achieve? Does it resolve the issue?
Andrew wrote.What would you do with the under 10s Charles? Flog them? Stone them? Hang them? We're talking small kids here.No. Fancy coming up with such rubbish. A few seconds of a mosquito wouldn't do a lot of harm though, as they are used to a lot of noise. When have I said everyone should be flogged?
chas, suffolk says...
5:12pm Wed 13 Feb 08
What does a mosquito achieve? Does it resolve the issueOf course it does. It makes those causing the harassment to move away. Confrontation could result in serious injury to smoebody.
Andrew, Bury says...
5:15pm Wed 13 Feb 08
spice wrote:I'm not suggesting a causal link between deprivation and crime but there's a relationship there.
Andrew,in your earlier post you bring up the matter of deprivation,are you saying that because these kids have been deprived of certain things earlier in their lives they turn to crime,I know plenty of kids who didn't have everthing they wanted ,and were short of loads of things in their lives ,that have turned out to be great teenagers,not going out robbing and mugging folks,so it could well be the spoilt kids that have done just that.
Where I live many of the kids and their families don't have much, but most are decent people. By far the majority. They are not muggers and robbers. Nonethless this area has the highest crime rate.
Like I say this is not a simple issue that can solved by simplistic measures. The advent of the Mosquito just shows the bankruptcy of people and the authorities in addressing anti-social behaviour, if indeed that's what it is. Kids hanging about on a street corner or a shopping parade - as they've always done - is not by default anti-social. In fact for kids its social - was for me, is for them. They are meeting each other but often that's enough to get people going. If they're abusive, littering, vandalising then that is anti-social/criminal behaviour.
Andrew, Bury says...
5:16pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:No, it doesn't resolve, it shifts the issue. It's also indiscriminate, unless used discrimately.
Andrew wrote.What does a mosquito achieve? Does it resolve the issueOf course it does. It makes those causing the harassment to move away. Confrontation could result in serious injury to smoebody.
Andrew, Bury says...
5:19pm Wed 13 Feb 08
chas wrote:Fab. Now you're using another incredibly rare (and horrific) case to try and make a general point about anti-social behaviour.
kianders. I was referring to andy's comment about small kids, as if they were harmless. Regarding to what you said earlier, the devices have on/off switches which should only be turned on when the shopkeeper or his customers are being harassed.
Mighty fine work Charles. No doubt a Mosquito would have halted the Bulger killing eh? Or an ASBO? Or a big stick?
You don't think things are more complex than that?
mrfusion, Notlob says...
5:23pm Wed 13 Feb 08
donmarg, devon says...
6:22pm Wed 13 Feb 08
And if they have to look up to someone like you god help them,
This country is doomed
overun with scrotes and deadbeats which this goverment have no control over,
Andrew, Bury says...
7:32pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Sun Tzu wrote:Is that right? How do you work that out oh wise one. Can you not read - check your pal donmarggabon's totally out of place comment which sparked that little one. How about quitting the wind ups, admitting the reality of what's posted and doing something to stop people hijacking threads. Oh sorry, you are one of those people.
I see Andrew has managed to turn the debate into a race issue once again.
TO REMIND, THIS IS ABOUT THE USE OF THE MOSQUITO DEVICE AND WHETHER IT IS A SUITABLE DEVICE FOR DEALING WITH ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR BY YOUNG PEOPLE.
amosc99, Overseas says...
8:37am Thu 14 Feb 08
chas wrote:STILL IN THE SOUTH OF THE COUNTRY!!!!
amos. You wouldn't be regarded as intelligent either in the North or South. For your information Suffolk is in the East.
chas, suffolk says...
8:46am Thu 14 Feb 08
chas, suffolk says...
8:52am Thu 14 Feb 08
kieanders, bolton says...
9:13am Thu 14 Feb 08
chas wrote:but what about when they affect the majority of young people who are not breaking the law, who do not need to be punished? is that a fair price to pay?
Real mosquitoes kill millions every year, these devices are relatively harmless. If these devices affect trouble makers, who cannot be punished under the law, then they are a great idea.
do you think there need to be strict controls over who uses them, when and where they are used and commitment to other methods of engaging with young people, intervention, etc. i have already said, i agree that they would be useful in certain situations, such as old peoples homes, etc. but there needs to be guidance, if not legislation, to deal with the use of these devices.
and chas, saying that suffolk isn't in the south is a bit silly, its like saying that newcastle isn't in the north.
boris, west sussex says...
10:38am Thu 14 Feb 08
kieanders, bolton says...
11:19am Thu 14 Feb 08
boris wrote:why do they do that. its so annoying.
I see Amateur and Andrew are deleting posts.
chas, suffolk says...
11:54am Thu 14 Feb 08
chas, suffolk says...
11:59am Thu 14 Feb 08
RagReader, Horwich says...
3:15pm Thu 14 Feb 08
boris wrote:You are always coming out with this stupid comment about various people, my self included, with no evidence or proof.
I see Amateur and Andrew are deleting posts.
You can't even get people's user names right so why should anybody take notice of you?
kieanders, bolton says...
4:20pm Thu 14 Feb 08
chas wrote:i live in the north west of england, but actually cumbria is in the north west, i'm actually west north west. splitting hairs eh chas?
kianders. I live in East Anglia, not South Anglia. Anglia means England.
if a place is further south, its in the south, further north its in the north, if it towards the east, its in the east... need i go on, its just a bit petty picking people up on it chas, you knew what was meant!
i agree with the shop keepers should only turn it on when they need to, but there should also be some extra initiatives going on to support the shopkeepers, and also monitor it.
ANNOYING: The Mosquito device gives out an uncomfortable, high-pitched sound which only young people can hear
Young being discriminated against: Watch our Video in <b>Related Links</b> below
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chas, suffolk says...
10:18am Wed 13 Feb 08