Bus services set to be cut across Bolton

This Is Lancashire: Bus services set to be cut across Bolton Bus services set to be cut across Bolton

THE brakes have been put on a number of bus services across Bolton as Transport for Greater Manchester (TFGM) look to save £7.1 million over the next two years.

Transport bosses and councillors claim to have identified ‘underused’ routes across Bolton.

These could be re-routed or scrapped as the authority tries to save 20 per cent of its supported bus services budget until 2016.

Chiefs say the cuts are a consequence of a freeze in the levy given by Bolton Council and the other nine Greater Manchester local authorities for the next 24 months, meaning TFGM has less money at its disposal.

Proposals include:

  • Changing the route of the 512, which travels from Bury to Bolton via Farnworth, to run between Bury and Royal Bolton Hospital only.
  • Shortening the route of the 513, which operates between Bolton and Bury between Farnworth, Ringley and Whitefield, so it goes between Bury and Farnworth bus station only.
  • Rerouting of the number 68 between Bolton and the Trafford Centre via Lumber Lane, to serve Roe Green.
  • Stopping the number 515, which currently runs between Middlebrook and Ladybridge Circular via Bolton. TFGM plan to replace it with an additional hourly short journey on the 715 between Bolton and Ladybridge and the 574 between Bolton and Middlebrook via Markland Hill
  • Cancelling the 515X between Bolton and Middlebrook and replacing it with early morning and evening peak journeys on the new service.
  • Scrapping the East Bolton Local Link, launched in October to serve the Chapeltown Road area, from July.
  • Shortening the 537, which currently goes between Bolton and Bromley Cross, to stop at Bank Top only via Ashworth Lane, Thornham Drive and Sharples Hall Drive. The frequency is being increased from half hourly to every 15 minutes.

Cllr David Chadwick, Bolton’s representative on the TFGM committee, said the organisation had to save money like any other local authority.

He added: “There is a fine line between running services and getting value for money.

“With the number of passengers on these services, it is hard to justify keeping them as they are.”

Cllr Andrew Fender, chairman of the TfGM Committee, said the organisation was under ‘huge pressure’ to make savings in the face of national spending cuts.

He added: “We are committed to working with partners to deliver excellent public transport and the last thing any of us wants to see is fewer essential bus services on our roads.

“That’s why the approach we are taking is to drive efficiencies in the way we deliver services rather than simply making cuts. But that’s not to say we won’t face some difficult decisions when it comes to spending on individual services.”

Comments (86)

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7:57am Sat 19 Apr 14

Hectoriva says...

Cutting bus services whilst building a multi-million pound new bus interchange station next to the train station.......strang
e. I thought we were building it to attract people to use public transport
Cutting bus services whilst building a multi-million pound new bus interchange station next to the train station.......strang e. I thought we were building it to attract people to use public transport Hectoriva
  • Score: 68

8:32am Sat 19 Apr 14

soup153 says...

Imbeciles, mind you it is cheaper the get a taxi the 1.5 miles in to town for me and the girlfriend.
Imbeciles, mind you it is cheaper the get a taxi the 1.5 miles in to town for me and the girlfriend. soup153
  • Score: 29

8:37am Sat 19 Apr 14

toby hobson says...

Wouldn't it be worth mentioning in this article how much money is being madeby the bus companies at the moment (which I don't know by the way) so we the public could read what has been written and decide if the issue is fat cat companies streamlining "services " so to maximize their profits. We don't and haven't had bus services for years, we have over priced, low quality transport companies who's primary objective is to make maximum returns for their shareholders NOT providing and sort of useful and realistic service.
Wouldn't it be worth mentioning in this article how much money is being madeby the bus companies at the moment (which I don't know by the way) so we the public could read what has been written and decide if the issue is fat cat companies streamlining "services " so to maximize their profits. We don't and haven't had bus services for years, we have over priced, low quality transport companies who's primary objective is to make maximum returns for their shareholders NOT providing and sort of useful and realistic service. toby hobson
  • Score: 27

8:38am Sat 19 Apr 14

Rawenergy says...

TFGM + Bolton Council = Clueless ......simple maths. Shame both could't use simple maths when pricing up the new station. New terminal with next to no buses......nice attraction
TFGM + Bolton Council = Clueless ......simple maths. Shame both could't use simple maths when pricing up the new station. New terminal with next to no buses......nice attraction Rawenergy
  • Score: 43

8:47am Sat 19 Apr 14

atlas123 says...

soup153 wrote:
Imbeciles, mind you it is cheaper the get a taxi the 1.5 miles in to town for me and the girlfriend.
Cheaper still to walk.... Its only 30mins if that
[quote][p][bold]soup153[/bold] wrote: Imbeciles, mind you it is cheaper the get a taxi the 1.5 miles in to town for me and the girlfriend.[/p][/quote]Cheaper still to walk.... Its only 30mins if that atlas123
  • Score: 22

8:59am Sat 19 Apr 14

Heeell says...

And what part of Bolton does the picture show???
And what part of Bolton does the picture show??? Heeell
  • Score: 22

9:31am Sat 19 Apr 14

Ernagy2 says...

Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village?

Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources?

I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.
Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village? Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources? I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things. Ernagy2
  • Score: 7

9:32am Sat 19 Apr 14

moggiesmews says...

Typical Bolton Council, brains in behind as usual, Build a new bus station and have fewer buss, thought we were trying to get people to use public transport. WAKE UP, what are you trying to do to this town, stop people coming in altogether, it's bad enough now, A child could run this Council better than this lot.
Typical Bolton Council, brains in behind as usual, Build a new bus station and have fewer buss, thought we were trying to get people to use public transport. WAKE UP, what are you trying to do to this town, stop people coming in altogether, it's bad enough now, A child could run this Council better than this lot. moggiesmews
  • Score: 20

9:44am Sat 19 Apr 14

alli13 says...

Ridiculous why don't these people research why people don't use buses then they would see that it is cheaper to get a taxi and more reliable.
Ridiculous why don't these people research why people don't use buses then they would see that it is cheaper to get a taxi and more reliable. alli13
  • Score: 18

9:51am Sat 19 Apr 14

Phil from Smithills says...

We should be keeping the 515 to the Middlebrook Shopping Centre and scrapping the 68 to the Trafford Centre. Lets promote our own shopping areas and not Manchesters.

I hope TfGM will not be protecting Manchester from any bus route cuts, or is it Bolton and the other towns that make up TfGM be the ones being expected to save the money.
We should be keeping the 515 to the Middlebrook Shopping Centre and scrapping the 68 to the Trafford Centre. Lets promote our own shopping areas and not Manchesters. I hope TfGM will not be protecting Manchester from any bus route cuts, or is it Bolton and the other towns that make up TfGM be the ones being expected to save the money. Phil from Smithills
  • Score: 22

9:55am Sat 19 Apr 14

Reality50 says...

You can guarantee Salford and Manchester won't lose any bus services. It will be the likes of Bolton,Wigan and Rochdale. Oh the joys of being in Greater Manchester!.
You can guarantee Salford and Manchester won't lose any bus services. It will be the likes of Bolton,Wigan and Rochdale. Oh the joys of being in Greater Manchester!. Reality50
  • Score: 19

10:02am Sat 19 Apr 14

thealexweb says...

The 515 farce continues. The reason for its current drop in usage was the route change and introduction of the 515x. The lack of a true circular route and the very long journey time to middlebrook via Bolton make the train a more viable option,
The 515 farce continues. The reason for its current drop in usage was the route change and introduction of the 515x. The lack of a true circular route and the very long journey time to middlebrook via Bolton make the train a more viable option, thealexweb
  • Score: 6

10:05am Sat 19 Apr 14

Reality50 says...

Middlebrook has always been badly served by buses from Bolton and not sure why. I tend to use the train when i go there as the buses are so bad. Would make more sense to have the 575 make a detour and use Middlebrook rather than all these hourly services that people rarely use via estates to Middlebrook. As for the 512,it be better via Little Lever and scrapping the 521 and the 513 should stay as it is. Seems Bromley Cross will do badly out of these changes too. Are there any buses that go up there now? Rerouting the number 1 Bolton to Blackburn via Bromley Cross would make sense.
Middlebrook has always been badly served by buses from Bolton and not sure why. I tend to use the train when i go there as the buses are so bad. Would make more sense to have the 575 make a detour and use Middlebrook rather than all these hourly services that people rarely use via estates to Middlebrook. As for the 512,it be better via Little Lever and scrapping the 521 and the 513 should stay as it is. Seems Bromley Cross will do badly out of these changes too. Are there any buses that go up there now? Rerouting the number 1 Bolton to Blackburn via Bromley Cross would make sense. Reality50
  • Score: 7

10:20am Sat 19 Apr 14

TheBoltonByrd says...

So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right!
So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right! TheBoltonByrd
  • Score: 11

10:24am Sat 19 Apr 14

Gore Seer says...

I Was On My Local Bus One Sunday, A Family Of Five African Immigrants Got On The Bus All Showed Free Bus Pass, Two Adults Age Around 30, Three Children Over Five, All Free, My Friend 62 Waits Till 63 To Get Free Pass, My Son Worked On Busses The Free And Reduce Fare, For People Under 60 Is Of The Scale. Yet The Blinking Over Sixties,Get The Blame Buss, NHS, Housing,I Am Going To Live To Long, And Use These Free Services, I Was Looking Forward To Old Age What's Gone Wrong?.
I Was On My Local Bus One Sunday, A Family Of Five African Immigrants Got On The Bus All Showed Free Bus Pass, Two Adults Age Around 30, Three Children Over Five, All Free, My Friend 62 Waits Till 63 To Get Free Pass, My Son Worked On Busses The Free And Reduce Fare, For People Under 60 Is Of The Scale. Yet The Blinking Over Sixties,Get The Blame Buss, NHS, Housing,I Am Going To Live To Long, And Use These Free Services, I Was Looking Forward To Old Age What's Gone Wrong?. Gore Seer
  • Score: 7

10:29am Sat 19 Apr 14

Gore Seer says...

Gore Seer wrote:
I Was On My Local Bus One Sunday, A Family Of Five African Immigrants Got On The Bus All Showed Free Bus Pass, Two Adults Age Around 30, Three Children Over Five, All Free, My Friend 62 Waits Till 63 To Get Free Pass, My Son Worked On Busses The Free And Reduce Fare, For People Under 60 Is Of The Scale. Yet The Blinking Over Sixties,Get The Blame Buss, NHS, Housing,I Am Going To Live To Long, And Use These Free Services, I Was Looking Forward To Old Age What's Gone Wrong?.
Then We Hear A Couple Of Hundred Thousands For Free Parking, My E.T. Friend As Ask Me What Is Free Parking, I Told Him I Don't Want To Talk About It.
[quote][p][bold]Gore Seer[/bold] wrote: I Was On My Local Bus One Sunday, A Family Of Five African Immigrants Got On The Bus All Showed Free Bus Pass, Two Adults Age Around 30, Three Children Over Five, All Free, My Friend 62 Waits Till 63 To Get Free Pass, My Son Worked On Busses The Free And Reduce Fare, For People Under 60 Is Of The Scale. Yet The Blinking Over Sixties,Get The Blame Buss, NHS, Housing,I Am Going To Live To Long, And Use These Free Services, I Was Looking Forward To Old Age What's Gone Wrong?.[/p][/quote]Then We Hear A Couple Of Hundred Thousands For Free Parking, My E.T. Friend As Ask Me What Is Free Parking, I Told Him I Don't Want To Talk About It. Gore Seer
  • Score: -3

10:36am Sat 19 Apr 14

thementalguru says...

Heeell wrote:
And what part of Bolton does the picture show???
Half Wits! That's DORSET!
http://m.dorsetecho.
co.uk/news/11128559.
All_change_for_bus_t
imetables/

Lazy Getz !
[quote][p][bold]Heeell[/bold] wrote: And what part of Bolton does the picture show???[/p][/quote]Half Wits! That's DORSET! http://m.dorsetecho. co.uk/news/11128559. All_change_for_bus_t imetables/ Lazy Getz ! thementalguru
  • Score: 11

10:36am Sat 19 Apr 14

thementalguru says...

Heeell wrote:
And what part of Bolton does the picture show???
The pic is of DORSET! ! !

http://m.dorsetecho.
co.uk/news/11128559.
All_change_for_bus_t
imetables/
[quote][p][bold]Heeell[/bold] wrote: And what part of Bolton does the picture show???[/p][/quote]The pic is of DORSET! ! ! http://m.dorsetecho. co.uk/news/11128559. All_change_for_bus_t imetables/ thementalguru
  • Score: 4

10:37am Sat 19 Apr 14

thementalguru says...

The PIC is of DORSET for GAWDSAKE!

http://m.dorsetecho.
co.uk/news/11128559.
All_change_for_bus_t
imetables/
The PIC is of DORSET for GAWDSAKE! http://m.dorsetecho. co.uk/news/11128559. All_change_for_bus_t imetables/ thementalguru
  • Score: 4

11:17am Sat 19 Apr 14

jimiley says...

The 515 is a complete dog's breakfast of a service. Used to be the 505, which was regular, but this one has fewer services and has an illogical route.

Better to have the 505 back going from town/Markland Hill/Middlebrook/Rai
l station and extending the hours until 8 or 9pm so both shoppers and commuters are served better? Or, alternatively, simply divert the ocasional 575 so it goes both to the Middlebrook and Markland Hill/Heaton areas (could be the 575x!)?
The 515 is a complete dog's breakfast of a service. Used to be the 505, which was regular, but this one has fewer services and has an illogical route. Better to have the 505 back going from town/Markland Hill/Middlebrook/Rai l station and extending the hours until 8 or 9pm so both shoppers and commuters are served better? Or, alternatively, simply divert the ocasional 575 so it goes both to the Middlebrook and Markland Hill/Heaton areas (could be the 575x!)? jimiley
  • Score: 3

11:17am Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Firstly the only services affected by the TfGM cuts are:

512 Bury To Bolton - as said will only operate between Bury and the Royal Bolton Hospital from 27th

513 Bury To Bolton - as said will only operate between Bury and Farnworth

515 Bolton To Ladybridge Circular - completely withdrawn, but being partially replaced by commercial operated service 715 to be operated by South Lancashire Travel (with no subsidy from TfGM)

All the other routes changes are actual commercial decisions by the bus companies who operate the routes with no subsidy, or action, from TfGM.
Firstly the only services affected by the TfGM cuts are: 512 Bury To Bolton - as said will only operate between Bury and the Royal Bolton Hospital from 27th 513 Bury To Bolton - as said will only operate between Bury and Farnworth 515 Bolton To Ladybridge Circular - completely withdrawn, but being partially replaced by commercial operated service 715 to be operated by South Lancashire Travel (with no subsidy from TfGM) All the other routes changes are actual commercial decisions by the bus companies who operate the routes with no subsidy, or action, from TfGM. The Righteous One
  • Score: -28

11:22am Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Reality50 wrote:
Middlebrook has always been badly served by buses from Bolton and not sure why. I tend to use the train when i go there as the buses are so bad. Would make more sense to have the 575 make a detour and use Middlebrook rather than all these hourly services that people rarely use via estates to Middlebrook. As for the 512,it be better via Little Lever and scrapping the 521 and the 513 should stay as it is. Seems Bromley Cross will do badly out of these changes too. Are there any buses that go up there now? Rerouting the number 1 Bolton to Blackburn via Bromley Cross would make sense.
Yep
Route 533 Bolton to Egerton hourly daytime only
Route 541 Bolton to Tippings Estate which is every 30 minutes during daytime
Routes 538/9 Astley Bridge/Bromley Cross Circular hourly during Monday to Saturday evenings and Sunday daytime but no Sunday evening service!
Route TA01 every couple of hours Monday, Wednesday and Friday between Bolton and Darwen via Edgworth
Route TA02 every couple of hours Tuesdat, Thursday and Saturdy between Bromley Cross Station and Bury via Edgworth
Route 37 Bromley Cross Station to Darwen about 5 services a day Monday To Friday Only!
[quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: Middlebrook has always been badly served by buses from Bolton and not sure why. I tend to use the train when i go there as the buses are so bad. Would make more sense to have the 575 make a detour and use Middlebrook rather than all these hourly services that people rarely use via estates to Middlebrook. As for the 512,it be better via Little Lever and scrapping the 521 and the 513 should stay as it is. Seems Bromley Cross will do badly out of these changes too. Are there any buses that go up there now? Rerouting the number 1 Bolton to Blackburn via Bromley Cross would make sense.[/p][/quote]Yep Route 533 Bolton to Egerton hourly daytime only Route 541 Bolton to Tippings Estate which is every 30 minutes during daytime Routes 538/9 Astley Bridge/Bromley Cross Circular hourly during Monday to Saturday evenings and Sunday daytime but no Sunday evening service! Route TA01 every couple of hours Monday, Wednesday and Friday between Bolton and Darwen via Edgworth Route TA02 every couple of hours Tuesdat, Thursday and Saturdy between Bromley Cross Station and Bury via Edgworth Route 37 Bromley Cross Station to Darwen about 5 services a day Monday To Friday Only! The Righteous One
  • Score: -26

11:26am Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Reality50 wrote:
You can guarantee Salford and Manchester won't lose any bus services. It will be the likes of Bolton,Wigan and Rochdale. Oh the joys of being in Greater Manchester!.
Actually they are losing services, just like every other part of Greater Manchester.

All services changes can be seen via;

http://www.tfgm.com/
buses/Pages/service_
changes.aspx

This list shows the changes to all services on 27th April - both subsidised by TfGM and the commercially operated routes (i.e. non TfGM funded)
[quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: You can guarantee Salford and Manchester won't lose any bus services. It will be the likes of Bolton,Wigan and Rochdale. Oh the joys of being in Greater Manchester!.[/p][/quote]Actually they are losing services, just like every other part of Greater Manchester. All services changes can be seen via; http://www.tfgm.com/ buses/Pages/service_ changes.aspx This list shows the changes to all services on 27th April - both subsidised by TfGM and the commercially operated routes (i.e. non TfGM funded) The Righteous One
  • Score: -4

11:31am Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Phil from Smithills wrote:
We should be keeping the 515 to the Middlebrook Shopping Centre and scrapping the 68 to the Trafford Centre. Lets promote our own shopping areas and not Manchesters.

I hope TfGM will not be protecting Manchester from any bus route cuts, or is it Bolton and the other towns that make up TfGM be the ones being expected to save the money.
the 515 and 68 are operated by 2 different bus companies.

515 is/was subsidised half-hourly service by TfGM and operated by South Lancashire Travel - but is being replaced by a commercially operated hourly "extra" service on the 715 gain operated by South Lancashire Travel,

68 is operated commercially by First in Greater Manchester (something that the BN has got wrong which is not a surprise as it is not subsidised by TfGM) and the re-routing means it only misses out 2 bus stops on its original route which are very close to route 26 which can fulfil the actual number off passengers in that area, but is actually increasing the number of stops along its route as it now serves Roe Green and thus a more of a catchment area and thus making is more financially viable to continue to operate as a commercial route.
[quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: We should be keeping the 515 to the Middlebrook Shopping Centre and scrapping the 68 to the Trafford Centre. Lets promote our own shopping areas and not Manchesters. I hope TfGM will not be protecting Manchester from any bus route cuts, or is it Bolton and the other towns that make up TfGM be the ones being expected to save the money.[/p][/quote]the 515 and 68 are operated by 2 different bus companies. 515 is/was subsidised half-hourly service by TfGM and operated by South Lancashire Travel - but is being replaced by a commercially operated hourly "extra" service on the 715 gain operated by South Lancashire Travel, 68 is operated commercially by First in Greater Manchester (something that the BN has got wrong which is not a surprise as it is not subsidised by TfGM) and the re-routing means it only misses out 2 bus stops on its original route which are very close to route 26 which can fulfil the actual number off passengers in that area, but is actually increasing the number of stops along its route as it now serves Roe Green and thus a more of a catchment area and thus making is more financially viable to continue to operate as a commercial route. The Righteous One
  • Score: -50

11:34am Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

TheBoltonByrd wrote:
So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right!
Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???
[quote][p][bold]TheBoltonByrd[/bold] wrote: So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right![/p][/quote]Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control??? The Righteous One
  • Score: -39

11:36am Sat 19 Apr 14

XTMike says...

I'm temporarily down in London where all bus services seem to visit the local rail stations. how well is Lostock, Middlebrook train stations served? the 575 bus completely misses them out despite two companies competing with different destinations yet having the same rout number.

XTMike
Normally from Heaton
I'm temporarily down in London where all bus services seem to visit the local rail stations. how well is Lostock, Middlebrook train stations served? the 575 bus completely misses them out despite two companies competing with different destinations yet having the same rout number. XTMike Normally from Heaton XTMike
  • Score: 8

11:39am Sat 19 Apr 14

melloj says...

The 36 is a rip off. I'd rather walk the 3 mile into town, which I do regularly, than pay £2.50 for a few miles. I can get a return bus to wigan from Bolton for just £4. Why is the 36 so dear from Farnworth!
The 36 is a rip off. I'd rather walk the 3 mile into town, which I do regularly, than pay £2.50 for a few miles. I can get a return bus to wigan from Bolton for just £4. Why is the 36 so dear from Farnworth! melloj
  • Score: 3

11:56am Sat 19 Apr 14

Beyond News Forum says...

soup153 wrote:
Imbeciles, mind you it is cheaper the get a taxi the 1.5 miles in to town for me and the girlfriend.
It's cheaper to get the taxi full stop if there are a few of you. Plus from this location, it is cheaper to get a taxi to town and and back. Actually it is just cheaper to travel by car to Middlebrook.

I begrudge paying for an inferior service.
[quote][p][bold]soup153[/bold] wrote: Imbeciles, mind you it is cheaper the get a taxi the 1.5 miles in to town for me and the girlfriend.[/p][/quote]It's cheaper to get the taxi full stop if there are a few of you. Plus from this location, it is cheaper to get a taxi to town and and back. Actually it is just cheaper to travel by car to Middlebrook. I begrudge paying for an inferior service. Beyond News Forum
  • Score: 2

12:05pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Beyond News Forum says...

The Righteous One wrote:
TheBoltonByrd wrote:
So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right!
Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???
Quote - "Chiefs say the cuts are a consequence of a freeze in the levy given by Bolton Council and the other nine Greater Manchester local authorities for the next 24 months, meaning TFGM has less money at its disposal." Unquote.

I'd say that is giving them a handout of sorts.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheBoltonByrd[/bold] wrote: So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right![/p][/quote]Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???[/p][/quote]Quote - "Chiefs say the cuts are a consequence of a freeze in the levy given by Bolton Council and the other nine Greater Manchester local authorities for the next 24 months, meaning TFGM has less money at its disposal." Unquote. I'd say that is giving them a handout of sorts. Beyond News Forum
  • Score: 0

12:21pm Sat 19 Apr 14

David 1957 says...

The TFGM are only interested in Metrolink, The guided bus route in Leigh and Tram Trains.They are not interested in heavy rail or buses.The TFGM over the years has done more damage to our rail services than Beeching ever did! Anything Metrolink wants it gets,money is no object.
The TFGM are only interested in Metrolink, The guided bus route in Leigh and Tram Trains.They are not interested in heavy rail or buses.The TFGM over the years has done more damage to our rail services than Beeching ever did! Anything Metrolink wants it gets,money is no object. David 1957
  • Score: 3

12:25pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Rawenergy wrote:
TFGM + Bolton Council = Clueless ......simple maths. Shame both could't use simple maths when pricing up the new station. New terminal with next to no buses......nice attraction
And this is what I have been saying for at least 18 months and over that time number of routes has steadily declined!!!!!


In fact since deregulation of the bus services in 1986 Bolton has lost over 70% of its bus routes. First in Greater Manchester (under its old names of GMBuses, GMBuses North) has gone from 105 bus routes in Bolton to only 20 routes and is still considered the major bus company in the town!!!

In 1994 we had as bus services in the town:

7 Egerton To Manchester (GMBuses) 30 mins
9 Blackod To Manchester (GMBuses) 30 mins
12 Bolton To Manchester (GM Buses) 30 mins
22 Bolton To Stockport (GMBuses) 30 mins
25 Bolton To Manchester (Ribble) 30 mins
27 Bolton To Manchester (Ribble) 30 min
28 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) 10 mins
30 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) Hourly
31 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) Hourly
36 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) 15 mins
37 Daisy Hil To Manchester (GMBuses) hourly
38 Hindley To Manchester (GMBuses) Hourly
68 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) 20 mins
94 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) Hourly
126 Bolton To Preston (Ribble) 20 mins
126 Bolton To Horwich (GMBuses) 20 mins
127 Bolton To Chorley (Ribble) Hourly
129 Chorley To Manchester (Ribble) Hourly
225 Bolton To Clitheroe (Ribble) 30 mins
273 Bolton To Burnley (Ribble) Hourly
399 Bolton To Rochdale (Ribble) 20 mins
400 Bolton To Airport (GMBuses) Hourly
401 Bolton To Stockport (GMBuses) Hourly
402 Rochdale To Warrington (GMBuses) Hourly
478 Bolton To Bury (Ribble) 20 mins
500 Bolton To Airport (GMBuses) Hourly
501 Doffcocker To Ringley (GMBuses) 5 Buses an hour
502 Barrow Bridge To Ringley (GMBuses) 1 bus an hour
505 Marland Hill To Hollins (GMBuses) 30 mins
506 Harwood Circular (GMBuses) 15 mins
507 Harwood Circular (GMBuses) 15 mins
508 Bolton To Bury (Shearings) Hourly
509 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) 30 mins
510 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) 30 mins
511 Bury To Farnworth/Bolton (GMBuses) Hourly
512 Bury To Farnworth/Bolton (GMBuses) Hourly
513 Whitefield To Farnworth (GMBuses) Hourly
515 Bolton To Westhoughton (GMBuses) Hourly
516 Leigh To Horich (GMBUses) Hourly
518 Bolton To Johnson Fold (GMBUses) 15 mins
519 Bolton To Johnson Fold (GMBUses) 15 mins
520 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) Hourly
521 Little Lever to Horwich (Ribble) Hourly
522 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) Hourly
524 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) 15 mins
524 Bolton To Bury (Ribble) 15 mins
525 Astley Bridge Circular (GMBuses) 30 mins
526 Bolton To Smithills (GMBuses) 4 buses an hour
527 Astley Bridge Circular (GMBuses) 30 mins
528 Bolton To Eagley (GMBuses) 30 mins
529 Bolton To Bromley Cross Station (Bolton Coachways) 30 mins
530 Bolton To Egerton (GMBuses) 30 mins
531 Bolton To Eagley (GMBuses) early mornings only
533 Bolton To Egerton (GMBuses) 30 mins
534 Bolton To Oldhams Estate (GMBuses) 30 mins
535 Bolton To Blackburn (Bolton Coachways) every 2 hours
536 Darcy Lever CIrcular (GMBuses) 20 mins
537 Darcy Lever Circuar (GMBUses) 20 mins
539 Bolton To Leigh (Shearings) 30 mins
540 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuses) 30 mins
541 Bolton To Taywood Rd (GMBuses) 30 mins
542 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuses) 30 mins
544 Bolton To Little Lever (Bolton Coachways) Hourly
545 Bolton To Harwood (Shearings) 30 mins
546 Bolton To Hall I'th Wood (GMBuses) 30 mins
550 Farnworth To Walkden (GMBuses) Hourly
551 Bolton To Leigh (GMBUses) Hourly
552 Bolton To Hag Fold (GMBuses) Hourly
553 Bolton To Leigh (GMBuses) hourly
554 Bolton To Eccles (GMBUses) hourly
555 Bolton To Mosley Common (Shearings) Hourly
557 Towwnleys to Kearsley (GMBuses) Hourly
559 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuse) 30 mins
560 Bolton To Bury (Shearings) Hourly
561 Withins Circular (GMBuses) 15 mins
562 Withins Circular (GMBuses) 15 mins
563 Bolton To Edgworth (GMBuses) 30 mins
565 Bury To Blackburn (Bolton Coachways) every 2 hours
570 Bolton To Lever edge (Bolton coachways) 30 mins
571 Great Lever Circular (GMBuses) 10 mins
572 Great Lever Circular (GMBuses) 10 mins
575 Bolton To Horwich (GMBuses) 30 mins
578 Hulton Hospital Circular (GMBuses)20 mins
580 Hulton hospital Circular (GMBUses) 20 mins
582 Bolton To Lowton (GMBuses) 20 mins
582 Bolton To Leigh (GMBuses) 20 mins
582 Bolton To Leigh (Ribble) 15 mins
615 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuses) Hourly
616 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuses) Hourly
617 Bolton To Wigan (GMBUses) Hourly
B1 Halliwell To Hulton Hospital (Ribble) 20 mins
B2 Halliwell To Hulton hospital (Ribble) 20 mins
B3 Bolton To Andrew Lane (Ribble) 30 mins
B4 Bolton To Oldhams Estate (Ribble) 30 mins
B5 Bolton To Ladybridge (Ribble) 30 mins
B6 Bolton To Ladybridge (Ribble) 30 mins

an now compare that to todays number of routes in Bolton (well from 27th April)

1 Blackburn To Bolton (Lancashire United) 15 mins
8 Bolton To Manchester (First) 10 mins
22 Bolton To Stockport (First & Stagecoach) 30 mins
31 Farnworth To Pendleton (First - TfGM) Hourly
36 Bolton To Manchester (First) 10 mins
37 Bolton To Manchester (First) 10 mins
68 Bolton To Trafford Centre (First) 30 mins (TfGM subsideised in evenings only and still operated by First)
125 Bolton To Preston (Stagecoach) 10 mins
273 Bolton To Rawtenstall (Rosso) Hourly
300 Bolton To Trafford Centre (SLT) Hourly
471 Bolton To Rochdale (First) 10 mins
480 Bolton To Bury (Rosso) Hourly
500 Bolton Metroshuttle (Cumfybus - TfGM) 15 mins
501 Doffcockert To Farnworth (First) 10 mins (TfGM subsidised in evenings and still operated by First)
507 Bolton To Harwood (First) 15 minss (TfGM subsidised in evenings and operated by Arriva)
510 Bolton To Bury (First) 30 mins (TfGM subsidised in evening Mon-sat and operated by Arriva - no service on sunday evenings)
512 Bury To Royal Bolton Hospital (stagecoach -TfGM)
513 Bury To Farnworth (Stagecoach - TfGM)
516 Leigh To Horwich (SLT - TfGM) Hourly during evenings and Sunday daytime - no Monday to Saturday daytime service or sunday evening service
517 Leigh To Horwich (SLT) Hourly
518 Leigh To Horwich (SLT) hourly
519 Bolton To Johnson Fold (First) 10 mins (TfGM subsidy in evenings Monday to Saturday - no Sunday evening service)
521 Little Lever To Blackrod (SLT - TfGM) Hourly
524 Bolton To Bury (First) 10 mins
525 Astley Bridge Circular (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly
526 Bolton To Smithills (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly
527 Astley Bridge Circular (First - TfGM) Hourly
533 Bolton To Egerton (First - TfGM) Hourly
534 Bolton To Oldhams Estate (Arriva) 15 mins (TfGM subsidised in evenings operated by SLT, Sundays by Arriva)
535 Bolton To Belmont (Arriva) Hourly
536 Bolton To Breightmet (Somerton Road) - (First) Hourly
537 Bolton To Andrew Lane (Arriva) 15 mins
538 Bromley Cross Circular (Arriva - TfGM) Monday to Saturday evening and Sunday daytime - no sunday evening service
539 Bromley Cross Circular (Arriva - TfGM) Monday to Saturday evening and Sunday daytime - no Sunday evening service
540 Bolton To Wigan (Stagecoach) 5 buses an hour
541 Bolton to Tippings Estate (Arriva) 3 mins
544 Bolton To Bradley Fold (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly
550 Farnworth to Walkden (SLT - TfGM) Hourly
551 Bolton To Leigh (SLT - TfGM) evenings and Sunday only
553 Bolton To Boothstown (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly
557 Farnworth To Prestolee (SLT - TfGM) 30 mins
559 Bolton To Wigan (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly
561 Withins Circular (First) 20 mins (TfGM subiside evenings services)
562 Withins Circular (First) 20 mins (TfGM subsidise evening services)
570 Bolton To Sutton Road (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly
571 Great Lever Circuar (First) 20 mins (TfGM subidise eveing service and operated by Cumfybus)
572 Great Lever Circular (First) 20 mins (TfGM subsidise evening services and operated by Cumfybus)
574 Bolton To Middlebrook (SLT) Houry
575 Bolton To Wigan (Arriva) 15 mins
575 Bolton To Old Lords Estate (First) 10 mins (TfGM subsidise evening services and operated by SLT)
576 Bolton To Wigan (SLT - TfGM) Hourly during evenigs only and no daytime servce
582 Bolton To Leigh (First) 10 mins
685 Leigh To Farnworth (SLT - TfGM) hourly
715 Bolton To Wigan (Arriva) Hourly (TfGM subsidise evening service Monday to Saturday and Sunday daytime service - no sunday evening service)
715 Bolton To Wigan (SLT) - Hourly
715 Bolton To Ladybridge (SLT) Hourly


Bit of a shocker isn't it?????
[quote][p][bold]Rawenergy[/bold] wrote: TFGM + Bolton Council = Clueless ......simple maths. Shame both could't use simple maths when pricing up the new station. New terminal with next to no buses......nice attraction[/p][/quote]And this is what I have been saying for at least 18 months and over that time number of routes has steadily declined!!!!! In fact since deregulation of the bus services in 1986 Bolton has lost over 70% of its bus routes. First in Greater Manchester (under its old names of GMBuses, GMBuses North) has gone from 105 bus routes in Bolton to only 20 routes and is still considered the major bus company in the town!!! In 1994 we had as bus services in the town: 7 Egerton To Manchester (GMBuses) 30 mins 9 Blackod To Manchester (GMBuses) 30 mins 12 Bolton To Manchester (GM Buses) 30 mins 22 Bolton To Stockport (GMBuses) 30 mins 25 Bolton To Manchester (Ribble) 30 mins 27 Bolton To Manchester (Ribble) 30 min 28 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) 10 mins 30 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) Hourly 31 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) Hourly 36 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) 15 mins 37 Daisy Hil To Manchester (GMBuses) hourly 38 Hindley To Manchester (GMBuses) Hourly 68 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) 20 mins 94 Bolton To Manchester (GMBuses) Hourly 126 Bolton To Preston (Ribble) 20 mins 126 Bolton To Horwich (GMBuses) 20 mins 127 Bolton To Chorley (Ribble) Hourly 129 Chorley To Manchester (Ribble) Hourly 225 Bolton To Clitheroe (Ribble) 30 mins 273 Bolton To Burnley (Ribble) Hourly 399 Bolton To Rochdale (Ribble) 20 mins 400 Bolton To Airport (GMBuses) Hourly 401 Bolton To Stockport (GMBuses) Hourly 402 Rochdale To Warrington (GMBuses) Hourly 478 Bolton To Bury (Ribble) 20 mins 500 Bolton To Airport (GMBuses) Hourly 501 Doffcocker To Ringley (GMBuses) 5 Buses an hour 502 Barrow Bridge To Ringley (GMBuses) 1 bus an hour 505 Marland Hill To Hollins (GMBuses) 30 mins 506 Harwood Circular (GMBuses) 15 mins 507 Harwood Circular (GMBuses) 15 mins 508 Bolton To Bury (Shearings) Hourly 509 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) 30 mins 510 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) 30 mins 511 Bury To Farnworth/Bolton (GMBuses) Hourly 512 Bury To Farnworth/Bolton (GMBuses) Hourly 513 Whitefield To Farnworth (GMBuses) Hourly 515 Bolton To Westhoughton (GMBuses) Hourly 516 Leigh To Horich (GMBUses) Hourly 518 Bolton To Johnson Fold (GMBUses) 15 mins 519 Bolton To Johnson Fold (GMBUses) 15 mins 520 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) Hourly 521 Little Lever to Horwich (Ribble) Hourly 522 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) Hourly 524 Bolton To Bury (GMBuses) 15 mins 524 Bolton To Bury (Ribble) 15 mins 525 Astley Bridge Circular (GMBuses) 30 mins 526 Bolton To Smithills (GMBuses) 4 buses an hour 527 Astley Bridge Circular (GMBuses) 30 mins 528 Bolton To Eagley (GMBuses) 30 mins 529 Bolton To Bromley Cross Station (Bolton Coachways) 30 mins 530 Bolton To Egerton (GMBuses) 30 mins 531 Bolton To Eagley (GMBuses) early mornings only 533 Bolton To Egerton (GMBuses) 30 mins 534 Bolton To Oldhams Estate (GMBuses) 30 mins 535 Bolton To Blackburn (Bolton Coachways) every 2 hours 536 Darcy Lever CIrcular (GMBuses) 20 mins 537 Darcy Lever Circuar (GMBUses) 20 mins 539 Bolton To Leigh (Shearings) 30 mins 540 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuses) 30 mins 541 Bolton To Taywood Rd (GMBuses) 30 mins 542 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuses) 30 mins 544 Bolton To Little Lever (Bolton Coachways) Hourly 545 Bolton To Harwood (Shearings) 30 mins 546 Bolton To Hall I'th Wood (GMBuses) 30 mins 550 Farnworth To Walkden (GMBuses) Hourly 551 Bolton To Leigh (GMBUses) Hourly 552 Bolton To Hag Fold (GMBuses) Hourly 553 Bolton To Leigh (GMBuses) hourly 554 Bolton To Eccles (GMBUses) hourly 555 Bolton To Mosley Common (Shearings) Hourly 557 Towwnleys to Kearsley (GMBuses) Hourly 559 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuse) 30 mins 560 Bolton To Bury (Shearings) Hourly 561 Withins Circular (GMBuses) 15 mins 562 Withins Circular (GMBuses) 15 mins 563 Bolton To Edgworth (GMBuses) 30 mins 565 Bury To Blackburn (Bolton Coachways) every 2 hours 570 Bolton To Lever edge (Bolton coachways) 30 mins 571 Great Lever Circular (GMBuses) 10 mins 572 Great Lever Circular (GMBuses) 10 mins 575 Bolton To Horwich (GMBuses) 30 mins 578 Hulton Hospital Circular (GMBuses)20 mins 580 Hulton hospital Circular (GMBUses) 20 mins 582 Bolton To Lowton (GMBuses) 20 mins 582 Bolton To Leigh (GMBuses) 20 mins 582 Bolton To Leigh (Ribble) 15 mins 615 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuses) Hourly 616 Bolton To Wigan (GMBuses) Hourly 617 Bolton To Wigan (GMBUses) Hourly B1 Halliwell To Hulton Hospital (Ribble) 20 mins B2 Halliwell To Hulton hospital (Ribble) 20 mins B3 Bolton To Andrew Lane (Ribble) 30 mins B4 Bolton To Oldhams Estate (Ribble) 30 mins B5 Bolton To Ladybridge (Ribble) 30 mins B6 Bolton To Ladybridge (Ribble) 30 mins an now compare that to todays number of routes in Bolton (well from 27th April) 1 Blackburn To Bolton (Lancashire United) 15 mins 8 Bolton To Manchester (First) 10 mins 22 Bolton To Stockport (First & Stagecoach) 30 mins 31 Farnworth To Pendleton (First - TfGM) Hourly 36 Bolton To Manchester (First) 10 mins 37 Bolton To Manchester (First) 10 mins 68 Bolton To Trafford Centre (First) 30 mins (TfGM subsideised in evenings only and still operated by First) 125 Bolton To Preston (Stagecoach) 10 mins 273 Bolton To Rawtenstall (Rosso) Hourly 300 Bolton To Trafford Centre (SLT) Hourly 471 Bolton To Rochdale (First) 10 mins 480 Bolton To Bury (Rosso) Hourly 500 Bolton Metroshuttle (Cumfybus - TfGM) 15 mins 501 Doffcockert To Farnworth (First) 10 mins (TfGM subsidised in evenings and still operated by First) 507 Bolton To Harwood (First) 15 minss (TfGM subsidised in evenings and operated by Arriva) 510 Bolton To Bury (First) 30 mins (TfGM subsidised in evening Mon-sat and operated by Arriva - no service on sunday evenings) 512 Bury To Royal Bolton Hospital (stagecoach -TfGM) 513 Bury To Farnworth (Stagecoach - TfGM) 516 Leigh To Horwich (SLT - TfGM) Hourly during evenings and Sunday daytime - no Monday to Saturday daytime service or sunday evening service 517 Leigh To Horwich (SLT) Hourly 518 Leigh To Horwich (SLT) hourly 519 Bolton To Johnson Fold (First) 10 mins (TfGM subsidy in evenings Monday to Saturday - no Sunday evening service) 521 Little Lever To Blackrod (SLT - TfGM) Hourly 524 Bolton To Bury (First) 10 mins 525 Astley Bridge Circular (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly 526 Bolton To Smithills (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly 527 Astley Bridge Circular (First - TfGM) Hourly 533 Bolton To Egerton (First - TfGM) Hourly 534 Bolton To Oldhams Estate (Arriva) 15 mins (TfGM subsidised in evenings operated by SLT, Sundays by Arriva) 535 Bolton To Belmont (Arriva) Hourly 536 Bolton To Breightmet (Somerton Road) - (First) Hourly 537 Bolton To Andrew Lane (Arriva) 15 mins 538 Bromley Cross Circular (Arriva - TfGM) Monday to Saturday evening and Sunday daytime - no sunday evening service 539 Bromley Cross Circular (Arriva - TfGM) Monday to Saturday evening and Sunday daytime - no Sunday evening service 540 Bolton To Wigan (Stagecoach) 5 buses an hour 541 Bolton to Tippings Estate (Arriva) 3 mins 544 Bolton To Bradley Fold (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly 550 Farnworth to Walkden (SLT - TfGM) Hourly 551 Bolton To Leigh (SLT - TfGM) evenings and Sunday only 553 Bolton To Boothstown (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly 557 Farnworth To Prestolee (SLT - TfGM) 30 mins 559 Bolton To Wigan (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly 561 Withins Circular (First) 20 mins (TfGM subiside evenings services) 562 Withins Circular (First) 20 mins (TfGM subsidise evening services) 570 Bolton To Sutton Road (Cumfybus - TfGM) Hourly 571 Great Lever Circuar (First) 20 mins (TfGM subidise eveing service and operated by Cumfybus) 572 Great Lever Circular (First) 20 mins (TfGM subsidise evening services and operated by Cumfybus) 574 Bolton To Middlebrook (SLT) Houry 575 Bolton To Wigan (Arriva) 15 mins 575 Bolton To Old Lords Estate (First) 10 mins (TfGM subsidise evening services and operated by SLT) 576 Bolton To Wigan (SLT - TfGM) Hourly during evenigs only and no daytime servce 582 Bolton To Leigh (First) 10 mins 685 Leigh To Farnworth (SLT - TfGM) hourly 715 Bolton To Wigan (Arriva) Hourly (TfGM subsidise evening service Monday to Saturday and Sunday daytime service - no sunday evening service) 715 Bolton To Wigan (SLT) - Hourly 715 Bolton To Ladybridge (SLT) Hourly Bit of a shocker isn't it????? The Righteous One
  • Score: -20

12:28pm Sat 19 Apr 14

I, Ludicrous says...

Well, I never thought that I'd ever come on here to read people extolling the merits of the town's Private Hire companies.
Well, I never thought that I'd ever come on here to read people extolling the merits of the town's Private Hire companies. I, Ludicrous
  • Score: 2

12:31pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Chrome1 says...

Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.
Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate. Chrome1
  • Score: 3

12:58pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

David 1957 wrote:
The TFGM are only interested in Metrolink, The guided bus route in Leigh and Tram Trains.They are not interested in heavy rail or buses.The TFGM over the years has done more damage to our rail services than Beeching ever did! Anything Metrolink wants it gets,money is no object.
How have they damaged our heavy rail? - up until last month thy didn't actually have a say in the times of the trains never mind who ran the trains - but that all to change come the next franchise round in 2016!!!

In fact if it wasn't for the TfGM subsidy on the rail prices our would be as expensive, or more so, that our neighbours in Lancashire who actually travel to the stations at Blackrod, Horwich and Bromley Cross just to get the savings!!!!
[quote][p][bold]David 1957[/bold] wrote: The TFGM are only interested in Metrolink, The guided bus route in Leigh and Tram Trains.They are not interested in heavy rail or buses.The TFGM over the years has done more damage to our rail services than Beeching ever did! Anything Metrolink wants it gets,money is no object.[/p][/quote]How have they damaged our heavy rail? - up until last month thy didn't actually have a say in the times of the trains never mind who ran the trains - but that all to change come the next franchise round in 2016!!! In fact if it wasn't for the TfGM subsidy on the rail prices our would be as expensive, or more so, that our neighbours in Lancashire who actually travel to the stations at Blackrod, Horwich and Bromley Cross just to get the savings!!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: -35

1:01pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

melloj wrote:
The 36 is a rip off. I'd rather walk the 3 mile into town, which I do regularly, than pay £2.50 for a few miles. I can get a return bus to wigan from Bolton for just £4. Why is the 36 so dear from Farnworth!
Because they are operated by different bus companies who have different fare structures and different fare deals!!!!
[quote][p][bold]melloj[/bold] wrote: The 36 is a rip off. I'd rather walk the 3 mile into town, which I do regularly, than pay £2.50 for a few miles. I can get a return bus to wigan from Bolton for just £4. Why is the 36 so dear from Farnworth![/p][/quote]Because they are operated by different bus companies who have different fare structures and different fare deals!!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: -36

1:07pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

XTMike wrote:
I'm temporarily down in London where all bus services seem to visit the local rail stations. how well is Lostock, Middlebrook train stations served? the 575 bus completely misses them out despite two companies competing with different destinations yet having the same rout number.

XTMike
Normally from Heaton
London (and anywhere within Greater London and comes under the Mayor of London jurisdiction) has a completely different law to public transport than at the rest of the country does!!!

That is how crazy and pathetic our laws are when its one law for us and one law for London!!!!
[quote][p][bold]XTMike[/bold] wrote: I'm temporarily down in London where all bus services seem to visit the local rail stations. how well is Lostock, Middlebrook train stations served? the 575 bus completely misses them out despite two companies competing with different destinations yet having the same rout number. XTMike Normally from Heaton[/p][/quote]London (and anywhere within Greater London and comes under the Mayor of London jurisdiction) has a completely different law to public transport than at the rest of the country does!!! That is how crazy and pathetic our laws are when its one law for us and one law for London!!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: -32

1:09pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Ooop pressed post too soon.

Also in London there is a greater regulation of the public transport, because of the differing laws, and more cohesion between the differing modes. For example it is not a free for all with the buses, like it is outside London - each route is controlled and Managed by TfL and franchised out the bus companies!
Ooop pressed post too soon. Also in London there is a greater regulation of the public transport, because of the differing laws, and more cohesion between the differing modes. For example it is not a free for all with the buses, like it is outside London - each route is controlled and Managed by TfL and franchised out the bus companies! The Righteous One
  • Score: -36

1:18pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Ernagy2 wrote:
Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village?

Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources?

I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.
The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva.

Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!!
[quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village? Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources? I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.[/p][/quote]The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva. Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: -41

2:32pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Ernagy2 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village?

Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources?

I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.
The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva.

Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!!
Since there is very rarely anyone on it from Horrocks fold, then it must be running at a loss. Either that or Bolton Council is giving it such a big subsidy that it doesn't need to worry about passengers from horrocks fold to belmont. T

Similarly the 540 can only start making a profit from the old Rumworth pub into town as very only a couple of people are on it no matter what time you go.

Fares are a problem, though not a lot can be done about that as they're not in local authority control and the price of oil is expensive. As a commercial business I'm not sure how these companies can keep going, unless they're getting subsidies so high for some routes that they can offset the other routes. I rarely see a bus even half these days and that's at peak time. During the day all the buses I see have only a couple of people on them.

I think there should be a long hard look at the routes and fares.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village? Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources? I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.[/p][/quote]The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva. Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!![/p][/quote]Since there is very rarely anyone on it from Horrocks fold, then it must be running at a loss. Either that or Bolton Council is giving it such a big subsidy that it doesn't need to worry about passengers from horrocks fold to belmont. T Similarly the 540 can only start making a profit from the old Rumworth pub into town as very only a couple of people are on it no matter what time you go. Fares are a problem, though not a lot can be done about that as they're not in local authority control and the price of oil is expensive. As a commercial business I'm not sure how these companies can keep going, unless they're getting subsidies so high for some routes that they can offset the other routes. I rarely see a bus even half these days and that's at peak time. During the day all the buses I see have only a couple of people on them. I think there should be a long hard look at the routes and fares. Ernagy2
  • Score: 0

2:33pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Chrome1 wrote:
Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.
Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else.

As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North!
[quote][p][bold]Chrome1[/bold] wrote: Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.[/p][/quote]Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else. As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North! The Righteous One
  • Score: -37

2:39pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

thementalguru wrote:
The PIC is of DORSET for GAWDSAKE!

http://m.dorsetecho.

co.uk/news/11128559.

All_change_for_bus_t

imetables/
I am sure the BN could have easily asked permission from SLT to use their website cover photo which shows an old 514 route!!!
[quote][p][bold]thementalguru[/bold] wrote: The PIC is of DORSET for GAWDSAKE! http://m.dorsetecho. co.uk/news/11128559. All_change_for_bus_t imetables/[/p][/quote]I am sure the BN could have easily asked permission from SLT to use their website cover photo which shows an old 514 route!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: -29

2:56pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Ernagy2 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village?

Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources?

I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.
The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva.

Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!!
Since there is very rarely anyone on it from Horrocks fold, then it must be running at a loss. Either that or Bolton Council is giving it such a big subsidy that it doesn't need to worry about passengers from horrocks fold to belmont. T

Similarly the 540 can only start making a profit from the old Rumworth pub into town as very only a couple of people are on it no matter what time you go.

Fares are a problem, though not a lot can be done about that as they're not in local authority control and the price of oil is expensive. As a commercial business I'm not sure how these companies can keep going, unless they're getting subsidies so high for some routes that they can offset the other routes. I rarely see a bus even half these days and that's at peak time. During the day all the buses I see have only a couple of people on them.

I think there should be a long hard look at the routes and fares.
Bolton Council DO NOT subsidise any bus route in the town. The TfGM does where necessary.

Like I have said, apart from one service, all of the 535 is commercially operated.

Bus companies, outside The Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction, are not allowed, by law, to operate a route as a loss!!! If it becomes loss making then the bus company, by law, has to either change the timetable to make it profitable again, or withdraw from the route.

If the TfGM deem the route as an essential route for the local community then it will probably subsidise (if it has the funds) but the route has to be advertised that it is subsidised and the subsidised contract, on average last for up between 18 months and 3 years and then franchise out again to the cheapest bidder!!! But it also means that the bus company that operated it before may or may not win the contract to operate the subsidised contract!

The route between Horrocks Fold and Belmont is not subsidised either by TfGM or Blackburn with Darwen Council!!! BwD do have a subsidised service (route 36) which operates 3 times a day between Darwen and Belmont!

As for the 540 click on this link, then clink on the PDF link for the timetable and you will see according to the timetable which services on the 540 are actually subsidised - which are not that many! All subsidised routes as I say, have to b advertised as such and on the timetables attached it is shown wit the TfGM logo above the time of the route is subsidises!
[quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village? Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources? I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.[/p][/quote]The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva. Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!![/p][/quote]Since there is very rarely anyone on it from Horrocks fold, then it must be running at a loss. Either that or Bolton Council is giving it such a big subsidy that it doesn't need to worry about passengers from horrocks fold to belmont. T Similarly the 540 can only start making a profit from the old Rumworth pub into town as very only a couple of people are on it no matter what time you go. Fares are a problem, though not a lot can be done about that as they're not in local authority control and the price of oil is expensive. As a commercial business I'm not sure how these companies can keep going, unless they're getting subsidies so high for some routes that they can offset the other routes. I rarely see a bus even half these days and that's at peak time. During the day all the buses I see have only a couple of people on them. I think there should be a long hard look at the routes and fares.[/p][/quote]Bolton Council DO NOT subsidise any bus route in the town. The TfGM does where necessary. Like I have said, apart from one service, all of the 535 is commercially operated. Bus companies, outside The Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction, are not allowed, by law, to operate a route as a loss!!! If it becomes loss making then the bus company, by law, has to either change the timetable to make it profitable again, or withdraw from the route. If the TfGM deem the route as an essential route for the local community then it will probably subsidise (if it has the funds) but the route has to be advertised that it is subsidised and the subsidised contract, on average last for up between 18 months and 3 years and then franchise out again to the cheapest bidder!!! But it also means that the bus company that operated it before may or may not win the contract to operate the subsidised contract! The route between Horrocks Fold and Belmont is not subsidised either by TfGM or Blackburn with Darwen Council!!! BwD do have a subsidised service (route 36) which operates 3 times a day between Darwen and Belmont! As for the 540 click on this link, then clink on the PDF link for the timetable and you will see according to the timetable which services on the 540 are actually subsidised - which are not that many! All subsidised routes as I say, have to b advertised as such and on the timetables attached it is shown wit the TfGM logo above the time of the route is subsidises! The Righteous One
  • Score: -42

2:58pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Apologies, I forgot to add the link to the post

http://www.tfgm.com/
journey_planning/Pag
es/bus_times_leaflet
_library.aspx
Apologies, I forgot to add the link to the post http://www.tfgm.com/ journey_planning/Pag es/bus_times_leaflet _library.aspx The Righteous One
  • Score: -42

3:04pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Also, under the current law for outside London, one bus route is not allowed to offset another bus route and even more tight is that one service of a route is not allowed to offset another service on the route )operated by the same bus company) just as much as services operated by other bus companies are not allowed to offset services from competitor bus companies!!

A new route is allowed 13 weeks to build up a custom base, ie operate at a loss, but after that if it is still making a loss then the bus company has to either amend timings, route or anything else to make it profitable, of which it is then given another 10 weeks, and if still not profitable then has to consider more changes or withdrawal from the route!
Also, under the current law for outside London, one bus route is not allowed to offset another bus route and even more tight is that one service of a route is not allowed to offset another service on the route )operated by the same bus company) just as much as services operated by other bus companies are not allowed to offset services from competitor bus companies!! A new route is allowed 13 weeks to build up a custom base, ie operate at a loss, but after that if it is still making a loss then the bus company has to either amend timings, route or anything else to make it profitable, of which it is then given another 10 weeks, and if still not profitable then has to consider more changes or withdrawal from the route! The Righteous One
  • Score: -17

3:20pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Chrome1 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
Chrome1 wrote:
Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.
Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else.

As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North!
My apologies then. Well done. Now back to watching my grass growing.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chrome1[/bold] wrote: Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.[/p][/quote]Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else. As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North![/p][/quote]My apologies then. Well done. Now back to watching my grass growing. Chrome1
  • Score: 1

3:26pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Chrome1 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Chrome1 wrote:
Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.
Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else.

As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North!
My apologies then. Well done. Now back to watching my grass growing.
Possibly better than watching the paint dry! ;-)
[quote][p][bold]Chrome1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chrome1[/bold] wrote: Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.[/p][/quote]Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else. As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North![/p][/quote]My apologies then. Well done. Now back to watching my grass growing.[/p][/quote]Possibly better than watching the paint dry! ;-) The Righteous One
  • Score: -39

4:16pm Sat 19 Apr 14

jimiley says...

The Righteous One wrote:
melloj wrote:
The 36 is a rip off. I'd rather walk the 3 mile into town, which I do regularly, than pay £2.50 for a few miles. I can get a return bus to wigan from Bolton for just £4. Why is the 36 so dear from Farnworth!
Because they are operated by different bus companies who have different fare structures and different fare deals!!!!
All fares should be posted at every bus stop. Two or more competing companies on the same route..one charging £1.30 and the other £1.80 - how long do you think it would stay £1.80??

Should be law that - tell the passenger how much they should be paying BEFORE they get on the bus. If you can do it with the trains via their websites, you should darned well be able to do so by bus.

I've brought this to the attention of the News before, and it's been completely ignored.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]melloj[/bold] wrote: The 36 is a rip off. I'd rather walk the 3 mile into town, which I do regularly, than pay £2.50 for a few miles. I can get a return bus to wigan from Bolton for just £4. Why is the 36 so dear from Farnworth![/p][/quote]Because they are operated by different bus companies who have different fare structures and different fare deals!!!![/p][/quote]All fares should be posted at every bus stop. Two or more competing companies on the same route..one charging £1.30 and the other £1.80 - how long do you think it would stay £1.80?? Should be law that - tell the passenger how much they should be paying BEFORE they get on the bus. If you can do it with the trains via their websites, you should darned well be able to do so by bus. I've brought this to the attention of the News before, and it's been completely ignored. jimiley
  • Score: 3

4:36pm Sat 19 Apr 14

soup153 says...

atlas123 wrote:
soup153 wrote:
Imbeciles, mind you it is cheaper the get a taxi the 1.5 miles in to town for me and the girlfriend.
Cheaper still to walk.... Its only 30mins if that
With shopping for three all up hill. when was the last time you walked in the rain.
[quote][p][bold]atlas123[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]soup153[/bold] wrote: Imbeciles, mind you it is cheaper the get a taxi the 1.5 miles in to town for me and the girlfriend.[/p][/quote]Cheaper still to walk.... Its only 30mins if that[/p][/quote]With shopping for three all up hill. when was the last time you walked in the rain. soup153
  • Score: 1

5:04pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Gore Seer says...

The Righteous One wrote:
TheBoltonByrd wrote:
So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right!
Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???
The Council Get A Lot Of Money There Is A Charge For Bus Stopped, A Bus Driver Told Me.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheBoltonByrd[/bold] wrote: So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right![/p][/quote]Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???[/p][/quote]The Council Get A Lot Of Money There Is A Charge For Bus Stopped, A Bus Driver Told Me. Gore Seer
  • Score: -3

5:04pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Gore Seer says...

The Righteous One wrote:
TheBoltonByrd wrote:
So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right!
Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???
The Council Get A Lot Of Money There Is A Charge For Bus Stopped, A Bus Driver Told Me.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheBoltonByrd[/bold] wrote: So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right![/p][/quote]Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???[/p][/quote]The Council Get A Lot Of Money There Is A Charge For Bus Stopped, A Bus Driver Told Me. Gore Seer
  • Score: -3

5:04pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Gore Seer says...

The Righteous One wrote:
TheBoltonByrd wrote:
So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right!
Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???
The Council Get A Lot Of Money There Is A Charge For Bus Stopped, A Bus Driver Told Me.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheBoltonByrd[/bold] wrote: So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right![/p][/quote]Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???[/p][/quote]The Council Get A Lot Of Money There Is A Charge For Bus Stopped, A Bus Driver Told Me. Gore Seer
  • Score: -3

5:18pm Sat 19 Apr 14

David 1957 says...

David 1957 wrote:
The TFGM are only interested in Metrolink, The guided bus route in Leigh and Tram Trains.They are not interested in heavy rail or buses.The TFGM over the years has done more damage to our rail services than Beeching ever did! Anything Metrolink wants it gets,money is no object.
The righteous onesays theTFGM has nothing to do with heavy rail. Well what about the Bury ,Altrincham and Oldham lines which have closed to make way for the toy town Metrlink trams .
[quote][p][bold]David 1957[/bold] wrote: The TFGM are only interested in Metrolink, The guided bus route in Leigh and Tram Trains.They are not interested in heavy rail or buses.The TFGM over the years has done more damage to our rail services than Beeching ever did! Anything Metrolink wants it gets,money is no object.[/p][/quote]The righteous onesays theTFGM has nothing to do with heavy rail. Well what about the Bury ,Altrincham and Oldham lines which have closed to make way for the toy town Metrlink trams . David 1957
  • Score: 4

5:50pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Reality50 says...

The 36 is indeed expensive on single fares and the 501 staddles much of the same route as far as George St in Farnworth yet the 501 is a lot cheaper yet both are served by First. The 36 to the George St / Highfield Rd junction from Bolton town centre is £ 2.90p single then yet the 501 which takes in the hospital and Highfield and covers an extra mile in distance,is only £2.40p to the same point. I always use the 501 and ignore the 36 for this reason even though the 501 takes 10 minutes longer.
The 36 is indeed expensive on single fares and the 501 staddles much of the same route as far as George St in Farnworth yet the 501 is a lot cheaper yet both are served by First. The 36 to the George St / Highfield Rd junction from Bolton town centre is £ 2.90p single then yet the 501 which takes in the hospital and Highfield and covers an extra mile in distance,is only £2.40p to the same point. I always use the 501 and ignore the 36 for this reason even though the 501 takes 10 minutes longer. Reality50
  • Score: 0

6:01pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Reality50 says...

As for Middlebrook it is simple and get the 575 to use Horwich train station and also Middlebrook. Yes,it would 10 minutes to a Bolton to Horwich town centre journey time,but it would make it far simpler and cost effective. We also have way too many buses going to Manchester,8,36,37,3
1,and a few others and frankly many are empty. Scrap the 37 and just have the 8 and 36. No need for the 68 and just reroute the 22 as a replacement. Belmont should be having a direct bus route to Blackburn as that is who their taxpayers pay their bills to. The 273 needs to be to Burnley not only as far as Rawtenstall as trains to Burnley from Bolton are expensive and require a change. The 400 Trans Lancs Express needs bringing back too. Off all the buses withdrawn the past 20 years,that is the most missed and it was ludicrous to be removed. Oldham for example is now a nightmare to reach as Metrolink is the only game in town there. I for one do not want Metrolink to ever come to Bolton.
As for Middlebrook it is simple and get the 575 to use Horwich train station and also Middlebrook. Yes,it would 10 minutes to a Bolton to Horwich town centre journey time,but it would make it far simpler and cost effective. We also have way too many buses going to Manchester,8,36,37,3 1,and a few others and frankly many are empty. Scrap the 37 and just have the 8 and 36. No need for the 68 and just reroute the 22 as a replacement. Belmont should be having a direct bus route to Blackburn as that is who their taxpayers pay their bills to. The 273 needs to be to Burnley not only as far as Rawtenstall as trains to Burnley from Bolton are expensive and require a change. The 400 Trans Lancs Express needs bringing back too. Off all the buses withdrawn the past 20 years,that is the most missed and it was ludicrous to be removed. Oldham for example is now a nightmare to reach as Metrolink is the only game in town there. I for one do not want Metrolink to ever come to Bolton. Reality50
  • Score: -1

6:03pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Reality50 says...

Bring back an effective regular 525 and 526 too. As a kid i remember Hallliwell Rd full of buses,nowadays it is a virtual bus free zone.
Bring back an effective regular 525 and 526 too. As a kid i remember Hallliwell Rd full of buses,nowadays it is a virtual bus free zone. Reality50
  • Score: 0

6:09pm Sat 19 Apr 14

flyingdagger says...

Gore Seer wrote:
I Was On My Local Bus One Sunday, A Family Of Five African Immigrants Got On The Bus All Showed Free Bus Pass, Two Adults Age Around 30, Three Children Over Five, All Free, My Friend 62 Waits Till 63 To Get Free Pass, My Son Worked On Busses The Free And Reduce Fare, For People Under 60 Is Of The Scale. Yet The Blinking Over Sixties,Get The Blame Buss, NHS, Housing,I Am Going To Live To Long, And Use These Free Services, I Was Looking Forward To Old Age What's Gone Wrong?.
And how do you know they were African immigrants did you ask them? No I thought not.
And it would help to understand your post better if you learnt to write English better yourself.
[quote][p][bold]Gore Seer[/bold] wrote: I Was On My Local Bus One Sunday, A Family Of Five African Immigrants Got On The Bus All Showed Free Bus Pass, Two Adults Age Around 30, Three Children Over Five, All Free, My Friend 62 Waits Till 63 To Get Free Pass, My Son Worked On Busses The Free And Reduce Fare, For People Under 60 Is Of The Scale. Yet The Blinking Over Sixties,Get The Blame Buss, NHS, Housing,I Am Going To Live To Long, And Use These Free Services, I Was Looking Forward To Old Age What's Gone Wrong?.[/p][/quote]And how do you know they were African immigrants did you ask them? No I thought not. And it would help to understand your post better if you learnt to write English better yourself. flyingdagger
  • Score: 0

6:31pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

David 1957 wrote:
David 1957 wrote:
The TFGM are only interested in Metrolink, The guided bus route in Leigh and Tram Trains.They are not interested in heavy rail or buses.The TFGM over the years has done more damage to our rail services than Beeching ever did! Anything Metrolink wants it gets,money is no object.
The righteous onesays theTFGM has nothing to do with heavy rail. Well what about the Bury ,Altrincham and Oldham lines which have closed to make way for the toy town Metrlink trams .
They were effectively BOUGHT from British Rail/Railtrack and then t had to go through parliament to close the lines as heavy duty lines before GMPTE took over the lines, closed them and changed them to become Metrolink!
[quote][p][bold]David 1957[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]David 1957[/bold] wrote: The TFGM are only interested in Metrolink, The guided bus route in Leigh and Tram Trains.They are not interested in heavy rail or buses.The TFGM over the years has done more damage to our rail services than Beeching ever did! Anything Metrolink wants it gets,money is no object.[/p][/quote]The righteous onesays theTFGM has nothing to do with heavy rail. Well what about the Bury ,Altrincham and Oldham lines which have closed to make way for the toy town Metrlink trams .[/p][/quote]They were effectively BOUGHT from British Rail/Railtrack and then t had to go through parliament to close the lines as heavy duty lines before GMPTE took over the lines, closed them and changed them to become Metrolink! The Righteous One
  • Score: -36

6:40pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Gore Seer wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
TheBoltonByrd wrote:
So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right!
Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???
The Council Get A Lot Of Money There Is A Charge For Bus Stopped, A Bus Driver Told Me.
The TfGM charge the bus companies for the use of the bus station plus the bus stops are owned by TfGM and the bus shelters (which are maintained by a French company). Charging for parking up at the bus station is also the duty of the TfGM. Remember the TfGM also own the Bus Stations and buildings!

Fares are set by the bus companies, including their own weekly and day savers, but the multi-bus tickets, such as the System One Day Ticket, are operated GMTravelcards Limited which has the support of all bus companies. Free travel is only applicable for the over 65's wit the TfGM travelcard (which can be used all over the country) or free cards issued by the DWP and can only be used for certain journeys - there are no free tickets for anything or anyone else!
[quote][p][bold]Gore Seer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheBoltonByrd[/bold] wrote: So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right![/p][/quote]Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???[/p][/quote]The Council Get A Lot Of Money There Is A Charge For Bus Stopped, A Bus Driver Told Me.[/p][/quote]The TfGM charge the bus companies for the use of the bus station plus the bus stops are owned by TfGM and the bus shelters (which are maintained by a French company). Charging for parking up at the bus station is also the duty of the TfGM. Remember the TfGM also own the Bus Stations and buildings! Fares are set by the bus companies, including their own weekly and day savers, but the multi-bus tickets, such as the System One Day Ticket, are operated GMTravelcards Limited which has the support of all bus companies. Free travel is only applicable for the over 65's wit the TfGM travelcard (which can be used all over the country) or free cards issued by the DWP and can only be used for certain journeys - there are no free tickets for anything or anyone else! The Righteous One
  • Score: -36

6:57pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Reality50 wrote:
As for Middlebrook it is simple and get the 575 to use Horwich train station and also Middlebrook. Yes,it would 10 minutes to a Bolton to Horwich town centre journey time,but it would make it far simpler and cost effective. We also have way too many buses going to Manchester,8,36,37,3

1,and a few others and frankly many are empty. Scrap the 37 and just have the 8 and 36. No need for the 68 and just reroute the 22 as a replacement. Belmont should be having a direct bus route to Blackburn as that is who their taxpayers pay their bills to. The 273 needs to be to Burnley not only as far as Rawtenstall as trains to Burnley from Bolton are expensive and require a change. The 400 Trans Lancs Express needs bringing back too. Off all the buses withdrawn the past 20 years,that is the most missed and it was ludicrous to be removed. Oldham for example is now a nightmare to reach as Metrolink is the only game in town there. I for one do not want Metrolink to ever come to Bolton.
Reality 50 - it is all well and good to suggest ideas about certain routes on here but wouldn't it be more fruitful if you contacted the bus companies that operate the routes themselves with the suggestions!!

Route 273 is operated commercially by Rosso (Rosendale Transport) except on Sunday when it is subsidised by Lancashire County Council between Bury boundary and Rawtenstall

Route 68 is operated by First in Greater Manchester between Bolton and The Trafford Cenre (and under contract to TfGM during evenings and Sunday and only operates between Farnworth and The Trafford Centre)

Route 22 is operated by First in Greater Manchester, Stagecoach Manchester and Manchester Community Transport(under contract to TfGm on selected evenings services only)

Route 575 is operated by Arriva North West, First in Greater Manchester and SLT(under contract to TfGM during every evening)

Route 31 is operated by First in Greater Manchester(under contract with TfGM) and only operates between Farnworth and Pendleton

Route 37 is operated commercially by First in Greater Manchester with no assistance from TfGM

8 is operated commercially by First in Greater Manchester with no assistance from TfGM

36 is operated commercially by First in Greater Manchester with no assistance from TfGM


Any routes which are wholly under the contract control of TfGM, such as Route 31, it is best to contact them direct instead of the bus company!
[quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: As for Middlebrook it is simple and get the 575 to use Horwich train station and also Middlebrook. Yes,it would 10 minutes to a Bolton to Horwich town centre journey time,but it would make it far simpler and cost effective. We also have way too many buses going to Manchester,8,36,37,3 1,and a few others and frankly many are empty. Scrap the 37 and just have the 8 and 36. No need for the 68 and just reroute the 22 as a replacement. Belmont should be having a direct bus route to Blackburn as that is who their taxpayers pay their bills to. The 273 needs to be to Burnley not only as far as Rawtenstall as trains to Burnley from Bolton are expensive and require a change. The 400 Trans Lancs Express needs bringing back too. Off all the buses withdrawn the past 20 years,that is the most missed and it was ludicrous to be removed. Oldham for example is now a nightmare to reach as Metrolink is the only game in town there. I for one do not want Metrolink to ever come to Bolton.[/p][/quote]Reality 50 - it is all well and good to suggest ideas about certain routes on here but wouldn't it be more fruitful if you contacted the bus companies that operate the routes themselves with the suggestions!! Route 273 is operated commercially by Rosso (Rosendale Transport) except on Sunday when it is subsidised by Lancashire County Council between Bury boundary and Rawtenstall Route 68 is operated by First in Greater Manchester between Bolton and The Trafford Cenre (and under contract to TfGM during evenings and Sunday and only operates between Farnworth and The Trafford Centre) Route 22 is operated by First in Greater Manchester, Stagecoach Manchester and Manchester Community Transport(under contract to TfGm on selected evenings services only) Route 575 is operated by Arriva North West, First in Greater Manchester and SLT(under contract to TfGM during every evening) Route 31 is operated by First in Greater Manchester(under contract with TfGM) and only operates between Farnworth and Pendleton Route 37 is operated commercially by First in Greater Manchester with no assistance from TfGM 8 is operated commercially by First in Greater Manchester with no assistance from TfGM 36 is operated commercially by First in Greater Manchester with no assistance from TfGM Any routes which are wholly under the contract control of TfGM, such as Route 31, it is best to contact them direct instead of the bus company! The Righteous One
  • Score: -23

7:34pm Sat 19 Apr 14

mintshaker says...

' Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources? '


I use the 540 to get to work from Westhoughton Monday to Friday and it is often standing room only both ways!
' Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources? ' I use the 540 to get to work from Westhoughton Monday to Friday and it is often standing room only both ways! mintshaker
  • Score: 3

8:45pm Sat 19 Apr 14

Phil from Smithills says...

The Righteous One wrote:
Chrome1 wrote:
Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.
Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else.

As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North!
Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess.

Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chrome1[/bold] wrote: Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.[/p][/quote]Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else. As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North![/p][/quote]Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess. Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton. Phil from Smithills
  • Score: 0

10:26pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Phil from Smithills wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Chrome1 wrote:
Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.
Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else.

As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North!
Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess.

Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton.
Fact is even without Greater Manchester Bolton Council would either had to have run its buses at arms length or sell the bus department because under the 1985 act (which came into force in October 1986 - deregulation day) councils were not allowed, by law, to run their own buses.

And if Bolton had continued to run the buses via its arms-length bus company, it would still have to obey the laws of non-profitmaking routes having to be withdrawn or amended and then Bolton Council having to "franchise" out routes to the cheapest bidder from the various bus companies it would have to compete with.

Even if The Council had control of its own money with regards to subsidising "essential to local economy" loss making routes - how many would still be in existence today? Blackburn last year, alone, had to withdraw 80% of the contracts because they couldn't afford it and now Blackburn has virtually no evening or Sunday services and same with many parts of Lancashire!!!

In this case it is not Greater Manchester that has failed Bolton it is the two-tier law that was created which has filed not only Bolton but all villages, towns and cities that do not come under the Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction!
[quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chrome1[/bold] wrote: Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.[/p][/quote]Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else. As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North![/p][/quote]Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess. Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton.[/p][/quote]Fact is even without Greater Manchester Bolton Council would either had to have run its buses at arms length or sell the bus department because under the 1985 act (which came into force in October 1986 - deregulation day) councils were not allowed, by law, to run their own buses. And if Bolton had continued to run the buses via its arms-length bus company, it would still have to obey the laws of non-profitmaking routes having to be withdrawn or amended and then Bolton Council having to "franchise" out routes to the cheapest bidder from the various bus companies it would have to compete with. Even if The Council had control of its own money with regards to subsidising "essential to local economy" loss making routes - how many would still be in existence today? Blackburn last year, alone, had to withdraw 80% of the contracts because they couldn't afford it and now Blackburn has virtually no evening or Sunday services and same with many parts of Lancashire!!! In this case it is not Greater Manchester that has failed Bolton it is the two-tier law that was created which has filed not only Bolton but all villages, towns and cities that do not come under the Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction! The Righteous One
  • Score: -58

10:49pm Sat 19 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

As proof here is a link to the Lancashire Evening Post showing the deep cuts they are having to make from end of May.

http://www.lep.co.uk
/news/villagers-dist
raught-over-plans-to
-cut-rural-bus-route
s-1-6371094

http://www.thisislan
cashire.co.uk/news/1
0989145.Save_Chorley
_buses_from_cuts____
cull____plea/
As proof here is a link to the Lancashire Evening Post showing the deep cuts they are having to make from end of May. http://www.lep.co.uk /news/villagers-dist raught-over-plans-to -cut-rural-bus-route s-1-6371094 http://www.thisislan cashire.co.uk/news/1 0989145.Save_Chorley _buses_from_cuts____ cull____plea/ The Righteous One
  • Score: -37

12:17am Sun 20 Apr 14

Reality50 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
Phil from Smithills wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Chrome1 wrote:
Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.
Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else.

As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North!
Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess.

Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton.
Fact is even without Greater Manchester Bolton Council would either had to have run its buses at arms length or sell the bus department because under the 1985 act (which came into force in October 1986 - deregulation day) councils were not allowed, by law, to run their own buses.

And if Bolton had continued to run the buses via its arms-length bus company, it would still have to obey the laws of non-profitmaking routes having to be withdrawn or amended and then Bolton Council having to "franchise" out routes to the cheapest bidder from the various bus companies it would have to compete with.

Even if The Council had control of its own money with regards to subsidising "essential to local economy" loss making routes - how many would still be in existence today? Blackburn last year, alone, had to withdraw 80% of the contracts because they couldn't afford it and now Blackburn has virtually no evening or Sunday services and same with many parts of Lancashire!!!

In this case it is not Greater Manchester that has failed Bolton it is the two-tier law that was created which has filed not only Bolton but all villages, towns and cities that do not come under the Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction!
Preston runs its own buses and Blackpool too. Time Bolton had its own bus company again though I won't hold my breath.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chrome1[/bold] wrote: Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.[/p][/quote]Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else. As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North![/p][/quote]Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess. Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton.[/p][/quote]Fact is even without Greater Manchester Bolton Council would either had to have run its buses at arms length or sell the bus department because under the 1985 act (which came into force in October 1986 - deregulation day) councils were not allowed, by law, to run their own buses. And if Bolton had continued to run the buses via its arms-length bus company, it would still have to obey the laws of non-profitmaking routes having to be withdrawn or amended and then Bolton Council having to "franchise" out routes to the cheapest bidder from the various bus companies it would have to compete with. Even if The Council had control of its own money with regards to subsidising "essential to local economy" loss making routes - how many would still be in existence today? Blackburn last year, alone, had to withdraw 80% of the contracts because they couldn't afford it and now Blackburn has virtually no evening or Sunday services and same with many parts of Lancashire!!! In this case it is not Greater Manchester that has failed Bolton it is the two-tier law that was created which has filed not only Bolton but all villages, towns and cities that do not come under the Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction![/p][/quote]Preston runs its own buses and Blackpool too. Time Bolton had its own bus company again though I won't hold my breath. Reality50
  • Score: 0

12:30am Sun 20 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Reality50 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Phil from Smithills wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Chrome1 wrote:
Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.
Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else.

As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North!
Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess.

Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton.
Fact is even without Greater Manchester Bolton Council would either had to have run its buses at arms length or sell the bus department because under the 1985 act (which came into force in October 1986 - deregulation day) councils were not allowed, by law, to run their own buses.

And if Bolton had continued to run the buses via its arms-length bus company, it would still have to obey the laws of non-profitmaking routes having to be withdrawn or amended and then Bolton Council having to "franchise" out routes to the cheapest bidder from the various bus companies it would have to compete with.

Even if The Council had control of its own money with regards to subsidising "essential to local economy" loss making routes - how many would still be in existence today? Blackburn last year, alone, had to withdraw 80% of the contracts because they couldn't afford it and now Blackburn has virtually no evening or Sunday services and same with many parts of Lancashire!!!

In this case it is not Greater Manchester that has failed Bolton it is the two-tier law that was created which has filed not only Bolton but all villages, towns and cities that do not come under the Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction!
Preston runs its own buses and Blackpool too. Time Bolton had its own bus company again though I won't hold my breath.
No they don't!

Preston Bus:
1. Owned by Preston Council
2. In 1986 due to the new laws were forced to make it arms length and it became Preston Borough Transport Limited
2. A Management buy-out of the company in 1993
3. Stagecoach bought the company in 2009
4. Now owned by Rotala, who bought it from Stagecoach in 2011

Blackpool Transport;
1. Department established in 1885 by Blackpool Council
2. In 1986 under the new laws had to transfer all assets to Blackpool Transport Limited which is an arms-length company of the council (as council are not allowed to directly operate buses)
3. Bought Fylde Transport Limited in 1994

Stockport did try to create an arms-length company about 7 years ago but the government advised the council it would take legal action if they did not sell it - it became part of MCT (Manchester Community Transport).

As I say Councils are not allowed, by law, to directly operate buses! - Transport Act 1985 required that operators be run at arm's length from local authorities and thus their operations were transferred to separate legal entities.
[quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chrome1[/bold] wrote: Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.[/p][/quote]Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else. As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North![/p][/quote]Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess. Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton.[/p][/quote]Fact is even without Greater Manchester Bolton Council would either had to have run its buses at arms length or sell the bus department because under the 1985 act (which came into force in October 1986 - deregulation day) councils were not allowed, by law, to run their own buses. And if Bolton had continued to run the buses via its arms-length bus company, it would still have to obey the laws of non-profitmaking routes having to be withdrawn or amended and then Bolton Council having to "franchise" out routes to the cheapest bidder from the various bus companies it would have to compete with. Even if The Council had control of its own money with regards to subsidising "essential to local economy" loss making routes - how many would still be in existence today? Blackburn last year, alone, had to withdraw 80% of the contracts because they couldn't afford it and now Blackburn has virtually no evening or Sunday services and same with many parts of Lancashire!!! In this case it is not Greater Manchester that has failed Bolton it is the two-tier law that was created which has filed not only Bolton but all villages, towns and cities that do not come under the Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction![/p][/quote]Preston runs its own buses and Blackpool too. Time Bolton had its own bus company again though I won't hold my breath.[/p][/quote]No they don't! Preston Bus: 1. Owned by Preston Council 2. In 1986 due to the new laws were forced to make it arms length and it became Preston Borough Transport Limited 2. A Management buy-out of the company in 1993 3. Stagecoach bought the company in 2009 4. Now owned by Rotala, who bought it from Stagecoach in 2011 Blackpool Transport; 1. Department established in 1885 by Blackpool Council 2. In 1986 under the new laws had to transfer all assets to Blackpool Transport Limited which is an arms-length company of the council (as council are not allowed to directly operate buses) 3. Bought Fylde Transport Limited in 1994 Stockport did try to create an arms-length company about 7 years ago but the government advised the council it would take legal action if they did not sell it - it became part of MCT (Manchester Community Transport). As I say Councils are not allowed, by law, to directly operate buses! - Transport Act 1985 required that operators be run at arm's length from local authorities and thus their operations were transferred to separate legal entities. The Righteous One
  • Score: -47

12:47am Sun 20 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

IF anything it would be like First in Greater Manchester using one of their other operating licences which are currently dormant such as:

Bolton Coachways
Bolton Transport
Lancashire United Travel
Salford City Transport
Citibus
Timeline Travel
IF anything it would be like First in Greater Manchester using one of their other operating licences which are currently dormant such as: Bolton Coachways Bolton Transport Lancashire United Travel Salford City Transport Citibus Timeline Travel The Righteous One
  • Score: -45

8:34am Sun 20 Apr 14

Ernagy2 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village?

Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources?

I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.
The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva.

Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!!
Since there is very rarely anyone on it from Horrocks fold, then it must be running at a loss. Either that or Bolton Council is giving it such a big subsidy that it doesn't need to worry about passengers from horrocks fold to belmont. T

Similarly the 540 can only start making a profit from the old Rumworth pub into town as very only a couple of people are on it no matter what time you go.

Fares are a problem, though not a lot can be done about that as they're not in local authority control and the price of oil is expensive. As a commercial business I'm not sure how these companies can keep going, unless they're getting subsidies so high for some routes that they can offset the other routes. I rarely see a bus even half these days and that's at peak time. During the day all the buses I see have only a couple of people on them.

I think there should be a long hard look at the routes and fares.
Bolton Council DO NOT subsidise any bus route in the town. The TfGM does where necessary.

Like I have said, apart from one service, all of the 535 is commercially operated.

Bus companies, outside The Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction, are not allowed, by law, to operate a route as a loss!!! If it becomes loss making then the bus company, by law, has to either change the timetable to make it profitable again, or withdraw from the route.

If the TfGM deem the route as an essential route for the local community then it will probably subsidise (if it has the funds) but the route has to be advertised that it is subsidised and the subsidised contract, on average last for up between 18 months and 3 years and then franchise out again to the cheapest bidder!!! But it also means that the bus company that operated it before may or may not win the contract to operate the subsidised contract!

The route between Horrocks Fold and Belmont is not subsidised either by TfGM or Blackburn with Darwen Council!!! BwD do have a subsidised service (route 36) which operates 3 times a day between Darwen and Belmont!

As for the 540 click on this link, then clink on the PDF link for the timetable and you will see according to the timetable which services on the 540 are actually subsidised - which are not that many! All subsidised routes as I say, have to b advertised as such and on the timetables attached it is shown wit the TfGM logo above the time of the route is subsidises!
I'm puzzled as to how any bus company is making any profit as, when I've been on them, apart from one or two passengers, there has been nobody on. Can they really make a profit on 3 passengers per half hour per day? Sometimes less than that?
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village? Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources? I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.[/p][/quote]The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva. Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!![/p][/quote]Since there is very rarely anyone on it from Horrocks fold, then it must be running at a loss. Either that or Bolton Council is giving it such a big subsidy that it doesn't need to worry about passengers from horrocks fold to belmont. T Similarly the 540 can only start making a profit from the old Rumworth pub into town as very only a couple of people are on it no matter what time you go. Fares are a problem, though not a lot can be done about that as they're not in local authority control and the price of oil is expensive. As a commercial business I'm not sure how these companies can keep going, unless they're getting subsidies so high for some routes that they can offset the other routes. I rarely see a bus even half these days and that's at peak time. During the day all the buses I see have only a couple of people on them. I think there should be a long hard look at the routes and fares.[/p][/quote]Bolton Council DO NOT subsidise any bus route in the town. The TfGM does where necessary. Like I have said, apart from one service, all of the 535 is commercially operated. Bus companies, outside The Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction, are not allowed, by law, to operate a route as a loss!!! If it becomes loss making then the bus company, by law, has to either change the timetable to make it profitable again, or withdraw from the route. If the TfGM deem the route as an essential route for the local community then it will probably subsidise (if it has the funds) but the route has to be advertised that it is subsidised and the subsidised contract, on average last for up between 18 months and 3 years and then franchise out again to the cheapest bidder!!! But it also means that the bus company that operated it before may or may not win the contract to operate the subsidised contract! The route between Horrocks Fold and Belmont is not subsidised either by TfGM or Blackburn with Darwen Council!!! BwD do have a subsidised service (route 36) which operates 3 times a day between Darwen and Belmont! As for the 540 click on this link, then clink on the PDF link for the timetable and you will see according to the timetable which services on the 540 are actually subsidised - which are not that many! All subsidised routes as I say, have to b advertised as such and on the timetables attached it is shown wit the TfGM logo above the time of the route is subsidises![/p][/quote]I'm puzzled as to how any bus company is making any profit as, when I've been on them, apart from one or two passengers, there has been nobody on. Can they really make a profit on 3 passengers per half hour per day? Sometimes less than that? Ernagy2
  • Score: 0

9:54am Sun 20 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Ernagy2 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village?

Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources?

I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.
The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva.

Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!!
Since there is very rarely anyone on it from Horrocks fold, then it must be running at a loss. Either that or Bolton Council is giving it such a big subsidy that it doesn't need to worry about passengers from horrocks fold to belmont. T

Similarly the 540 can only start making a profit from the old Rumworth pub into town as very only a couple of people are on it no matter what time you go.

Fares are a problem, though not a lot can be done about that as they're not in local authority control and the price of oil is expensive. As a commercial business I'm not sure how these companies can keep going, unless they're getting subsidies so high for some routes that they can offset the other routes. I rarely see a bus even half these days and that's at peak time. During the day all the buses I see have only a couple of people on them.

I think there should be a long hard look at the routes and fares.
Bolton Council DO NOT subsidise any bus route in the town. The TfGM does where necessary.

Like I have said, apart from one service, all of the 535 is commercially operated.

Bus companies, outside The Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction, are not allowed, by law, to operate a route as a loss!!! If it becomes loss making then the bus company, by law, has to either change the timetable to make it profitable again, or withdraw from the route.

If the TfGM deem the route as an essential route for the local community then it will probably subsidise (if it has the funds) but the route has to be advertised that it is subsidised and the subsidised contract, on average last for up between 18 months and 3 years and then franchise out again to the cheapest bidder!!! But it also means that the bus company that operated it before may or may not win the contract to operate the subsidised contract!

The route between Horrocks Fold and Belmont is not subsidised either by TfGM or Blackburn with Darwen Council!!! BwD do have a subsidised service (route 36) which operates 3 times a day between Darwen and Belmont!

As for the 540 click on this link, then clink on the PDF link for the timetable and you will see according to the timetable which services on the 540 are actually subsidised - which are not that many! All subsidised routes as I say, have to b advertised as such and on the timetables attached it is shown wit the TfGM logo above the time of the route is subsidises!
I'm puzzled as to how any bus company is making any profit as, when I've been on them, apart from one or two passengers, there has been nobody on. Can they really make a profit on 3 passengers per half hour per day? Sometimes less than that?
As I say its not just the route that ahs to make a profit but the actual service as well!!! Hence why on some routes that is supposedly an hourly service there are gaps in the timetable because those services are not profitable, and why Arriva, 18 months ago, withdrew some services from the 715 thus leaving a gap of about 90 minutes between services at one point of the day, and why up until 27th both the 537 (Bolton to Bromley Cross Station) and 538 (Bolton to Egeton) stop operating at about 530pm and then next service on the 538/539 (Bromley Cross Circulars) is just after 7pm!!!
[quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: Most of the bus services run empty. They can surely go further than this. I'd like to see the belmont road combined with the halliwell route, thus making a circular. Are Blackburn paying their fair share as Belmont is run by Blackburn Council, but Bolton provide a bus service to the village? Then there is the 540 at Westhoughton that runs empty until it reaches Deane. Is that good use of resources? I think the whole thing needs looking at rather than this pacthy way of doing things.[/p][/quote]The Route 535. is NOT subsidised and is operated commercially, and a t a profit, by Arriva. Athough there is one service a day which is subsidised by TfGM and operated by First in Greater Manchester and that is only funded between Bolton and Horrocks Fold (which is still in Bolton) whilst the rest of the rout is operated as a commercial venture!!![/p][/quote]Since there is very rarely anyone on it from Horrocks fold, then it must be running at a loss. Either that or Bolton Council is giving it such a big subsidy that it doesn't need to worry about passengers from horrocks fold to belmont. T Similarly the 540 can only start making a profit from the old Rumworth pub into town as very only a couple of people are on it no matter what time you go. Fares are a problem, though not a lot can be done about that as they're not in local authority control and the price of oil is expensive. As a commercial business I'm not sure how these companies can keep going, unless they're getting subsidies so high for some routes that they can offset the other routes. I rarely see a bus even half these days and that's at peak time. During the day all the buses I see have only a couple of people on them. I think there should be a long hard look at the routes and fares.[/p][/quote]Bolton Council DO NOT subsidise any bus route in the town. The TfGM does where necessary. Like I have said, apart from one service, all of the 535 is commercially operated. Bus companies, outside The Mayor of London/TfL jurisdiction, are not allowed, by law, to operate a route as a loss!!! If it becomes loss making then the bus company, by law, has to either change the timetable to make it profitable again, or withdraw from the route. If the TfGM deem the route as an essential route for the local community then it will probably subsidise (if it has the funds) but the route has to be advertised that it is subsidised and the subsidised contract, on average last for up between 18 months and 3 years and then franchise out again to the cheapest bidder!!! But it also means that the bus company that operated it before may or may not win the contract to operate the subsidised contract! The route between Horrocks Fold and Belmont is not subsidised either by TfGM or Blackburn with Darwen Council!!! BwD do have a subsidised service (route 36) which operates 3 times a day between Darwen and Belmont! As for the 540 click on this link, then clink on the PDF link for the timetable and you will see according to the timetable which services on the 540 are actually subsidised - which are not that many! All subsidised routes as I say, have to b advertised as such and on the timetables attached it is shown wit the TfGM logo above the time of the route is subsidises![/p][/quote]I'm puzzled as to how any bus company is making any profit as, when I've been on them, apart from one or two passengers, there has been nobody on. Can they really make a profit on 3 passengers per half hour per day? Sometimes less than that?[/p][/quote]As I say its not just the route that ahs to make a profit but the actual service as well!!! Hence why on some routes that is supposedly an hourly service there are gaps in the timetable because those services are not profitable, and why Arriva, 18 months ago, withdrew some services from the 715 thus leaving a gap of about 90 minutes between services at one point of the day, and why up until 27th both the 537 (Bolton to Bromley Cross Station) and 538 (Bolton to Egeton) stop operating at about 530pm and then next service on the 538/539 (Bromley Cross Circulars) is just after 7pm!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: -38

11:06am Sun 20 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Phil from Smithills wrote:
We should be keeping the 515 to the Middlebrook Shopping Centre and scrapping the 68 to the Trafford Centre. Lets promote our own shopping areas and not Manchesters.

I hope TfGM will not be protecting Manchester from any bus route cuts, or is it Bolton and the other towns that make up TfGM be the ones being expected to save the money.
Trafford Centre isn't in Manchester so basically we are not supporting Manchester.

Intu Trafford Centre is in the Metropolitan Borough of Trafford!!!
[quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: We should be keeping the 515 to the Middlebrook Shopping Centre and scrapping the 68 to the Trafford Centre. Lets promote our own shopping areas and not Manchesters. I hope TfGM will not be protecting Manchester from any bus route cuts, or is it Bolton and the other towns that make up TfGM be the ones being expected to save the money.[/p][/quote]Trafford Centre isn't in Manchester so basically we are not supporting Manchester. Intu Trafford Centre is in the Metropolitan Borough of Trafford!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: -48

11:48am Sun 20 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Phil from Smithills wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Chrome1 wrote:
Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.
Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else.

As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North!
Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess.

Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton.
No they didn't

Bolton Council ran there own buses until 1969 when it became part of SELNEC, In 1974 SELNEC changed its name to Greater Manchester Transport, and took on board Wigan Corporation buses when Greater Manchester was created.

In 1986 under the Transport Act of 1985 the transport bodies had to create arms-length companies and transport bodies/councils were not allowed to directly operate bus routes as it would give undue influence on the emerging new independent bus companies that were now allowed to operate bus routes and as such an even field had to be created. In October GMT moved it bus operating assets to GMBuses Limited.

In December 1993 the Government, at the time, decided to step in as they believed that GMBuses was too much of a big competitor that was stifling the independents and as such they forced the split of GMBuses to become GMBuses North and GMS Buses and they were both subject to management buyouts.

In 1996 First Group bought GMBuses North and Stagecoach bought GMS Buses.

Finally another twist in the tale, which s more recent. In December 2012 First Group sold the Wigan garage to Stagecoach (which now operates as GM Buses West t/a Stagecoach Wigan and is a subsidiary of GMS Buses t/a Stagecoach in Manchester) and Stagecoach also bought the Bluebird bus company, in Middleton and that became GMS Buses t/a Stagecoach Manchester!! Whilst First Manchester t/a First in Greater Manchester has just recently bought Finglands in Rusholme thus expanding to the south of the region! Whilst to the east of the region in Oldham and Manchester First Manchester operates it subsidiary of First Pennine t/a First in Greater Manchester

So basically all the way through, it has never been about being part of greater Manchester but government influence which has led to open market influence to what we have today.

Bus operators in Bolton, currently, are:

Arriva North West
First Manchester t/a First in Greater Manchester
GMS Buses t/a Stagecoach Manchester
GM Buses West t/a Stagecoach Wigan
GTL t/a Stagecoach in South Lancashire and Merseyside
Transdev Blackburn Transport t/a Lancashire United Buses
D&G Bus t/a South Lancashire Travel
Rosso
Cumfybus
Manchester Community Transport
Darwen Coach Services
Travel Assist
Tyrers Coaches
[quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chrome1[/bold] wrote: Oh Lord, save us from 'copy and paste' messages. Righteous One, get a blinkin' life mate.[/p][/quote]Ok so where did I copy and paste that information from - definitely not from TfGm or Wikipedia or anywhere else. As it is I just know the bus routes past and present in this wonderful town of ours and how they have been decimated by First group over the 17 years they have been in the area since they bought out GMBuses North![/p][/quote]Remembering that Bolton Council ran its own buses until 1974., when Greater Manchester was invented, and our bus, along with the other towns buses were all merged into SELNEC buses and has now finished up a complete mess. Another reason why Gtr Manchester has failed Bolton.[/p][/quote]No they didn't Bolton Council ran there own buses until 1969 when it became part of SELNEC, In 1974 SELNEC changed its name to Greater Manchester Transport, and took on board Wigan Corporation buses when Greater Manchester was created. In 1986 under the Transport Act of 1985 the transport bodies had to create arms-length companies and transport bodies/councils were not allowed to directly operate bus routes as it would give undue influence on the emerging new independent bus companies that were now allowed to operate bus routes and as such an even field had to be created. In October GMT moved it bus operating assets to GMBuses Limited. In December 1993 the Government, at the time, decided to step in as they believed that GMBuses was too much of a big competitor that was stifling the independents and as such they forced the split of GMBuses to become GMBuses North and GMS Buses and they were both subject to management buyouts. In 1996 First Group bought GMBuses North and Stagecoach bought GMS Buses. Finally another twist in the tale, which s more recent. In December 2012 First Group sold the Wigan garage to Stagecoach (which now operates as GM Buses West t/a Stagecoach Wigan and is a subsidiary of GMS Buses t/a Stagecoach in Manchester) and Stagecoach also bought the Bluebird bus company, in Middleton and that became GMS Buses t/a Stagecoach Manchester!! Whilst First Manchester t/a First in Greater Manchester has just recently bought Finglands in Rusholme thus expanding to the south of the region! Whilst to the east of the region in Oldham and Manchester First Manchester operates it subsidiary of First Pennine t/a First in Greater Manchester So basically all the way through, it has never been about being part of greater Manchester but government influence which has led to open market influence to what we have today. Bus operators in Bolton, currently, are: Arriva North West First Manchester t/a First in Greater Manchester GMS Buses t/a Stagecoach Manchester GM Buses West t/a Stagecoach Wigan GTL t/a Stagecoach in South Lancashire and Merseyside Transdev Blackburn Transport t/a Lancashire United Buses D&G Bus t/a South Lancashire Travel Rosso Cumfybus Manchester Community Transport Darwen Coach Services Travel Assist Tyrers Coaches The Righteous One
  • Score: -44

5:23pm Sun 20 Apr 14

Phil from Smithills says...

The Righteous One wrote:
Phil from Smithills wrote:
We should be keeping the 515 to the Middlebrook Shopping Centre and scrapping the 68 to the Trafford Centre. Lets promote our own shopping areas and not Manchesters.

I hope TfGM will not be protecting Manchester from any bus route cuts, or is it Bolton and the other towns that make up TfGM be the ones being expected to save the money.
Trafford Centre isn't in Manchester so basically we are not supporting Manchester.

Intu Trafford Centre is in the Metropolitan Borough of Trafford!!!
Thank you for nit picking at my comments.

As I suggested, we should be promoting OUR shopping centres and NOT those in Manchester.( The Trafford Centre certainly like to promote their Manchester connections.)

Irrespective of who owns which or what bus company, the article reads that TfGM are to save £17m. So its them who are reducing any subsidies to bus companies operating in Bolton.

As Bolton Corporation ran our buses in Bolton for around 70 years, it was forced into merging along with the other local towns transport companies to create SELNEC which was to facilitate the creation of Gtr Manchester in 1974.

Gtr Manchester was not created by some immaculate conception, but by the Tory government at that time. That's why I say.... Greater Manchester has been of no use to Bolton
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: We should be keeping the 515 to the Middlebrook Shopping Centre and scrapping the 68 to the Trafford Centre. Lets promote our own shopping areas and not Manchesters. I hope TfGM will not be protecting Manchester from any bus route cuts, or is it Bolton and the other towns that make up TfGM be the ones being expected to save the money.[/p][/quote]Trafford Centre isn't in Manchester so basically we are not supporting Manchester. Intu Trafford Centre is in the Metropolitan Borough of Trafford!!![/p][/quote]Thank you for nit picking at my comments. As I suggested, we should be promoting OUR shopping centres and NOT those in Manchester.( The Trafford Centre certainly like to promote their Manchester connections.) Irrespective of who owns which or what bus company, the article reads that TfGM are to save £17m. So its them who are reducing any subsidies to bus companies operating in Bolton. As Bolton Corporation ran our buses in Bolton for around 70 years, it was forced into merging along with the other local towns transport companies to create SELNEC which was to facilitate the creation of Gtr Manchester in 1974. Gtr Manchester was not created by some immaculate conception, but by the Tory government at that time. That's why I say.... Greater Manchester has been of no use to Bolton Phil from Smithills
  • Score: 1

6:47pm Sun 20 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

But even if Bolton still had control of its funds, how many of the subsidised services would be operating now?

Lets not forget that even if Bolton Corporation was still independent after 1969/1974 it would have had to move its assets to an arms length company, by law, in 1986 and would probably had sold it on just like 99% of all the other "so-called" council owned transport companies!!!

Rawtenstall has "Rosso" up for sale and even Blackpool Transport Limited is up for sale by Blackpool Council because local authorities can no longer keep up the cost of operating a bus company!!!

Also lets not forget that the savings is for the whole of Greater Manchester for the next 2 years!!!

If we followed the lines of BwD, Blackpool or even Lancashire County Council then I can guarantee than more than half the subsidised routes would have gone over the last 18 months. Just like Merseytravel have had to make massive cuts as well as all the other Transport bodies in the country, yes even TfL have had to make changes such as closing the tube ticket offices and, God help us, put up the fares as TfL control the fares unlike in the rest of the UK!!!

As it is all that has happened is that 2 routes have been curtailed whilst 1 route is no longer subsidised as it I now being operated as a commercial route!!! Would these routes still be operating if Bolton Council were still dishing out the funds?

What you are trying to do is move the discussion to whether Greater Manchester is/was good for Bolton or not, but this thread is about the cuts that are having to be made - just like in every other part of the country. Therefore whether we are part of Greater Manchester or not doesn't mean anything as cuts would still have to be made - even more so if Bolton was looking after their own cost-centre due to the cuts the Council has made elsewhere and still having to make cuts!!!

Under the 1986 Transport Act if Bolton was still independent from Manchester it would still have to allow competitors to run whatever routes they want, Bolton transport would have still to be an arms-length company and each route would still have to make a profit and any loss making route would still have to be considered whether it was of value for the locality and then the route put out to tender of which Bolton Council would then have to go with the cheapest bid (and yes Bolton transport would have to compete for the bids by law).

Therefore, whether we are part of Greater Manchester or not means absolute nothing when it comes to operating buses in the town or any other town in the country (except London where they have a different law) as the council would still have to abide to the law and still be facing huge cuts!!!

What The Bolton News hasn't said is that on 27th April there are well over 120 changes to routes throughout Greater Manchester of which there are quite a few changes to the subsidised contracts, not just in Bolton but also the other 9 towns/cities in the county. The same is going in Lancashire from next month when over 25% subsidised routes are not being curtailed or reduced but being withdrawn!!!! And the same figures was done in BwD last year and Merseytravel of withdrawing over 35% of subsidised routes from end of this month as well!!!


In fact here in Bolton we have been let off lightly compared to out neighbouring counties!!!!
But even if Bolton still had control of its funds, how many of the subsidised services would be operating now? Lets not forget that even if Bolton Corporation was still independent after 1969/1974 it would have had to move its assets to an arms length company, by law, in 1986 and would probably had sold it on just like 99% of all the other "so-called" council owned transport companies!!! Rawtenstall has "Rosso" up for sale and even Blackpool Transport Limited is up for sale by Blackpool Council because local authorities can no longer keep up the cost of operating a bus company!!! Also lets not forget that the savings is for the whole of Greater Manchester for the next 2 years!!! If we followed the lines of BwD, Blackpool or even Lancashire County Council then I can guarantee than more than half the subsidised routes would have gone over the last 18 months. Just like Merseytravel have had to make massive cuts as well as all the other Transport bodies in the country, yes even TfL have had to make changes such as closing the tube ticket offices and, God help us, put up the fares as TfL control the fares unlike in the rest of the UK!!! As it is all that has happened is that 2 routes have been curtailed whilst 1 route is no longer subsidised as it I now being operated as a commercial route!!! Would these routes still be operating if Bolton Council were still dishing out the funds? What you are trying to do is move the discussion to whether Greater Manchester is/was good for Bolton or not, but this thread is about the cuts that are having to be made - just like in every other part of the country. Therefore whether we are part of Greater Manchester or not doesn't mean anything as cuts would still have to be made - even more so if Bolton was looking after their own cost-centre due to the cuts the Council has made elsewhere and still having to make cuts!!! Under the 1986 Transport Act if Bolton was still independent from Manchester it would still have to allow competitors to run whatever routes they want, Bolton transport would have still to be an arms-length company and each route would still have to make a profit and any loss making route would still have to be considered whether it was of value for the locality and then the route put out to tender of which Bolton Council would then have to go with the cheapest bid (and yes Bolton transport would have to compete for the bids by law). Therefore, whether we are part of Greater Manchester or not means absolute nothing when it comes to operating buses in the town or any other town in the country (except London where they have a different law) as the council would still have to abide to the law and still be facing huge cuts!!! What The Bolton News hasn't said is that on 27th April there are well over 120 changes to routes throughout Greater Manchester of which there are quite a few changes to the subsidised contracts, not just in Bolton but also the other 9 towns/cities in the county. The same is going in Lancashire from next month when over 25% subsidised routes are not being curtailed or reduced but being withdrawn!!!! And the same figures was done in BwD last year and Merseytravel of withdrawing over 35% of subsidised routes from end of this month as well!!! In fact here in Bolton we have been let off lightly compared to out neighbouring counties!!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: -48

10:26pm Sun 20 Apr 14

JustBecause says...

thementalguru wrote:
The PIC is of DORSET for GAWDSAKE!

http://m.dorsetecho.

co.uk/news/11128559.

All_change_for_bus_t

imetables/
Wonder if a breach of copyright has occurred?
[quote][p][bold]thementalguru[/bold] wrote: The PIC is of DORSET for GAWDSAKE! http://m.dorsetecho. co.uk/news/11128559. All_change_for_bus_t imetables/[/p][/quote]Wonder if a breach of copyright has occurred? JustBecause
  • Score: 1

10:36pm Sun 20 Apr 14

mr.mark.c says...

The Righteous One wrote:
TheBoltonByrd wrote:
So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right!
Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???
TFGM is mostly funded from council tax, only a small amount comes from central Gov.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheBoltonByrd[/bold] wrote: So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right![/p][/quote]Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???[/p][/quote]TFGM is mostly funded from council tax, only a small amount comes from central Gov. mr.mark.c
  • Score: 0

10:45pm Sun 20 Apr 14

mr.mark.c says...

Copied from a PDF supplied by Manchester.gov
.
TfGM receives funding from
several sources to provide for the transport expenditure
outlined above. The largest part of its revenue funding
comes from a levy on the ten Greater Manchester local
authorities via the council tax. In total, this accounts for
£198.1 million in 2014/15.
Copied from a PDF supplied by Manchester.gov . TfGM receives funding from several sources to provide for the transport expenditure outlined above. The largest part of its revenue funding comes from a levy on the ten Greater Manchester local authorities via the council tax. In total, this accounts for £198.1 million in 2014/15. mr.mark.c
  • Score: 0

11:55pm Sun 20 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

mr.mark.c wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
TheBoltonByrd wrote:
So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right!
Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???
TFGM is mostly funded from council tax, only a small amount comes from central Gov.
But it is not NOT Bolton Council that is funding the subsidised services it is done by TfGM - the same local government Quango that looks after traffic island, traffic islands, trains, trams, cycle lanes and ALL street furniture. Anything to do with transport comes from TfGM - they just do not deal with buses.

Out of the budget they pay for:

- Concessionary payments to the bus companies because of the Over 65 card which provides free travel, that cannot be stopped unless there is a change in the law - how do you think companies get the money from these Over 65 passes???
- Subsidised bus routes
- Subsidised rail fares (rail fares are far cheaper in Greater Manchester than what they are in Lancashire!) example a Return fare from Blackrod to Manchester is £8.80 whilst from Adlington it is £10.60 (4 minute between the stations and a difference of £1.60) where as from Horwich Parkway return it is £8.30 and is only 4 minutes away from Blackord and the difference is only 50p!!! - All because of the subsidy TfGM does compared to LCC!!!
- Bus shelters
- Bus stops
- Bus Timetables
- Rail station improvements and repairs - including helping to fund the current improvements to Victoria Station, and the re-instating of Platform 5.
Park and Ride schemes such as the car parks at Lostock, Horwich Parkway, Bromley Cross Station, Hall I'th Wood and Kearsley
- Traffic lights and road islands - installations and repairs
- Special projects - such as Bolton Bus Station and the Guided Busway where most of the funding has come from Central Government
- Upkeep of the Metrolink - rails infrastructure, new trams to replace clapped out units and the increase of mileage.
- New platform at Manchester airport
- Street Lights
- Door to Door transport, such as Ring & Ride
- Yellow School Buses
- Payment of school buses
- Free bus passes for children
- Season tickets for all modes of transport which the private transport companies sign up to such as the System One savers, busPlus tickets
Bus loans for the independent bus companies to help purchase green eco-friendly buses for TfGM contracts!


And that is just a small snapshot of what TfGM does within Greater Manchester!


Population of Greater Manchester is 2.7 million and as you say £200million comes from the ten councils which equates to £75/person/year to keep the people on the move - if anything that is excellent value for what the Quango does!!!!
[quote][p][bold]mr.mark.c[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheBoltonByrd[/bold] wrote: So, put the council tax up and cut the bus services....seems about right![/p][/quote]Bolton Council are not funding the buses and they do not operate the buses!!!!!!! So why blame the council for something that is not of their control???[/p][/quote]TFGM is mostly funded from council tax, only a small amount comes from central Gov.[/p][/quote]But it is not NOT Bolton Council that is funding the subsidised services it is done by TfGM - the same local government Quango that looks after traffic island, traffic islands, trains, trams, cycle lanes and ALL street furniture. Anything to do with transport comes from TfGM - they just do not deal with buses. Out of the budget they pay for: - Concessionary payments to the bus companies because of the Over 65 card which provides free travel, that cannot be stopped unless there is a change in the law - how do you think companies get the money from these Over 65 passes??? - Subsidised bus routes - Subsidised rail fares (rail fares are far cheaper in Greater Manchester than what they are in Lancashire!) example a Return fare from Blackrod to Manchester is £8.80 whilst from Adlington it is £10.60 (4 minute between the stations and a difference of £1.60) where as from Horwich Parkway return it is £8.30 and is only 4 minutes away from Blackord and the difference is only 50p!!! - All because of the subsidy TfGM does compared to LCC!!! - Bus shelters - Bus stops - Bus Timetables - Rail station improvements and repairs - including helping to fund the current improvements to Victoria Station, and the re-instating of Platform 5. Park and Ride schemes such as the car parks at Lostock, Horwich Parkway, Bromley Cross Station, Hall I'th Wood and Kearsley - Traffic lights and road islands - installations and repairs - Special projects - such as Bolton Bus Station and the Guided Busway where most of the funding has come from Central Government - Upkeep of the Metrolink - rails infrastructure, new trams to replace clapped out units and the increase of mileage. - New platform at Manchester airport - Street Lights - Door to Door transport, such as Ring & Ride - Yellow School Buses - Payment of school buses - Free bus passes for children - Season tickets for all modes of transport which the private transport companies sign up to such as the System One savers, busPlus tickets Bus loans for the independent bus companies to help purchase green eco-friendly buses for TfGM contracts! And that is just a small snapshot of what TfGM does within Greater Manchester! Population of Greater Manchester is 2.7 million and as you say £200million comes from the ten councils which equates to £75/person/year to keep the people on the move - if anything that is excellent value for what the Quango does!!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: -25

12:01am Mon 21 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

In fact, taken from the website, this is what TfGM does, many of which have to be done under various laws introduced since the 1985 Transport Act:-

Transport for Greater Manchester is the delivery arm of an elected body: the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, a new strategic regional authority with functions relating to economic development and regeneration, regional planning, transport, skills and training, and air quality.

The Combined Authority has taken over the transport functions previously carried out by Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority, as well as some additional responsibilities that previously sat with the local authorities. It has set up a joint committee - the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee - to manage these responsibilities.

Transport for Greater Manchester will be responsible for implementing the policies and decisions of the elected body.

We will continue to carry out the responsibilities previously provided by GMPTE:

paying for bus services which are not provided commercially by bus operators.

owning bus stations, shelters and stops in Greater Manchester and working to ensure all the information passengers see there is correct.

subsidising concessionary fares and free travel facilities on buses throughout the region, including paying to keep non-profitable services running where passengers need them most

carrying out the policies of an elected authority to ensure that local rail services meet local travel needs

owning Metrolink

campaigning to promote public transport in Greater Manchester, to improve the environment and cut congestion

To this will be added responsibility for:

The installation, maintenance and management of traffic signals

Maintaining highway databases, surveys, modelling, analysis, appraisals and advice

Highway route performance, incident response and event management via a traffic control centre

Partnership working to provide a shared strategic road safety analysis and recommendations on interventions

Preparation of the Local Transport Plan, for approval by the Combined Authority, would also be carried out solely by TfGM.

In practical terms, this will mean the addition of new functional units to a new-look organisation.

These bodies are:

Greater Manchester Urban Traffic Control Unit (GMUTC)

Greater Manchester Transportation Unit (GMTU)

Greater Manchester Joint Road Safety Group (GMJRSG)

Greater Manchester Joint Transport Team (GMJTT)

GM ITA Policy Unit

The transport functions of the Combined Authority & Transport for Greater Manchester Committee will continue to be funded by the transport levy (in the same way as GMITA/GMPTE were funded) and the non-transport functions will also be funded by contributions from the district councils.


The Transport for Greater Manchester Committee


The membership of the committee will mirror the membership of the former Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority.

There will 33 members from the ten districts.

Most of the transport functions previously carried out by GMITA will be delegated by the Combined Authority to the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee.

District authorities will also delegate some of their transport and traffic related functions to the new committee.

Functions not previously carried out by GMPTE, which will be part of the new committee's responsibility, include:

traffic lights and signals

road safety

data collection

The committee will make recommendations in the following areas for approval by the Combined Authority:

setting the revenue budget and the issue of a levy

approving the borrowing of TfGM

approving the capital programme and approving schemes to be funded by the Greater Manchester Transport Fund

approving the Local Transport Plan

ratifying the appointment of a Chief Executive and other executive and non-executive directors
In fact, taken from the website, this is what TfGM does, many of which have to be done under various laws introduced since the 1985 Transport Act:- Transport for Greater Manchester is the delivery arm of an elected body: the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, a new strategic regional authority with functions relating to economic development and regeneration, regional planning, transport, skills and training, and air quality. The Combined Authority has taken over the transport functions previously carried out by Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority, as well as some additional responsibilities that previously sat with the local authorities. It has set up a joint committee - the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee - to manage these responsibilities. Transport for Greater Manchester will be responsible for implementing the policies and decisions of the elected body. We will continue to carry out the responsibilities previously provided by GMPTE: paying for bus services which are not provided commercially by bus operators. owning bus stations, shelters and stops in Greater Manchester and working to ensure all the information passengers see there is correct. subsidising concessionary fares and free travel facilities on buses throughout the region, including paying to keep non-profitable services running where passengers need them most carrying out the policies of an elected authority to ensure that local rail services meet local travel needs owning Metrolink campaigning to promote public transport in Greater Manchester, to improve the environment and cut congestion To this will be added responsibility for: The installation, maintenance and management of traffic signals Maintaining highway databases, surveys, modelling, analysis, appraisals and advice Highway route performance, incident response and event management via a traffic control centre Partnership working to provide a shared strategic road safety analysis and recommendations on interventions Preparation of the Local Transport Plan, for approval by the Combined Authority, would also be carried out solely by TfGM. In practical terms, this will mean the addition of new functional units to a new-look organisation. These bodies are: Greater Manchester Urban Traffic Control Unit (GMUTC) Greater Manchester Transportation Unit (GMTU) Greater Manchester Joint Road Safety Group (GMJRSG) Greater Manchester Joint Transport Team (GMJTT) GM ITA Policy Unit The transport functions of the Combined Authority & Transport for Greater Manchester Committee will continue to be funded by the transport levy (in the same way as GMITA/GMPTE were funded) and the non-transport functions will also be funded by contributions from the district councils. The Transport for Greater Manchester Committee The membership of the committee will mirror the membership of the former Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority. There will 33 members from the ten districts. Most of the transport functions previously carried out by GMITA will be delegated by the Combined Authority to the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee. District authorities will also delegate some of their transport and traffic related functions to the new committee. Functions not previously carried out by GMPTE, which will be part of the new committee's responsibility, include: traffic lights and signals road safety data collection The committee will make recommendations in the following areas for approval by the Combined Authority: setting the revenue budget and the issue of a levy approving the borrowing of TfGM approving the capital programme and approving schemes to be funded by the Greater Manchester Transport Fund approving the Local Transport Plan ratifying the appointment of a Chief Executive and other executive and non-executive directors The Righteous One
  • Score: -39

12:18am Mon 21 Apr 14

mr.mark.c says...

Ah well
http://www.mancheste
r.gov.uk/download/do
wnloads/id/21656/inv
esting_in_greater_ma
nchester_transport_2
014-2015
Ah well http://www.mancheste r.gov.uk/download/do wnloads/id/21656/inv esting_in_greater_ma nchester_transport_2 014-2015 mr.mark.c
  • Score: 0

12:34am Mon 21 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Transport for Lancashire (only came into being at the end of December 2013 and encompasses Lanacshire County Council, Blackpool, Blackburn with Darwen and Lancashire Enterprize) has a current budget of £400million of which £180million is coming from the council tax of Lancastrian citizens, Blackpool citizens and BwD citizens (totalling 1.8million) and for them the cost is £100/person/year - yes that is right more than what people in Greater Manchester are paying, and they are getting less for their money!!!!


Merseytravel has a current budget of £300million of which £120million is coming from Council tax and that means £85/person/year an again they are getting less for their money than what we do!!

Transport for London - budget of £9BILLION, £4billion from Central Givernment,£2billio
n in profits and that means £1billion from the council tax payers of Greater London is on average £111/person/year

So as we only pay £75/person/year is actually quite good
Transport for Lancashire (only came into being at the end of December 2013 and encompasses Lanacshire County Council, Blackpool, Blackburn with Darwen and Lancashire Enterprize) has a current budget of £400million of which £180million is coming from the council tax of Lancastrian citizens, Blackpool citizens and BwD citizens (totalling 1.8million) and for them the cost is £100/person/year - yes that is right more than what people in Greater Manchester are paying, and they are getting less for their money!!!! Merseytravel has a current budget of £300million of which £120million is coming from Council tax and that means £85/person/year an again they are getting less for their money than what we do!! Transport for London - budget of £9BILLION, £4billion from Central Givernment,£2billio n in profits and that means £1billion from the council tax payers of Greater London is on average £111/person/year So as we only pay £75/person/year is actually quite good The Righteous One
  • Score: -37

10:59am Mon 21 Apr 14

David 1957 says...

Does the righteous one work for the TFGM or has shares in the company
Does the righteous one work for the TFGM or has shares in the company David 1957
  • Score: 1

1:31pm Mon 21 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

David 1957 wrote:
Does the righteous one work for the TFGM or has shares in the company
It isn't a company it is a local government quango and as such doesn't have shares!


Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) is the public body responsible for co-ordinating public transport services throughout Greater Manchester, in North West England. The organisation traces its origins to the Transport Act 1968, when the SELNEC Passenger Transport Executive was established to co-ordinate public transport in and around Manchester. Between 1974 and 2011 this body was known as the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (abbreviated GMPTE), until a reformation of local government arrangements in Greater Manchester granted the body more powers and prompted a corporate rebranding. The strategies and policies of Transport for Greater Manchester are set by the Greater Manchester Combined Authority and its Transport for Greater Manchester Committee.

Operating with powers comparable to Transport for London, Transport for Greater Manchester is responsible for investments in improving transport services and facilities, and supporting the largest regional economy outside London. It is the executive arm of the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee (the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Authority between 1974 and 2011) which funds and makes policies for TfGM. The authority is made up of 33 councillors appointed from the ten Greater Manchester districts (Bolton, Bury, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford and Wigan).



But no I don't work for TfGm or have shares in a the local Government Quango, but I do have shares in Nederlandse Spooorwegen, Transdev and ITV plc
[quote][p][bold]David 1957[/bold] wrote: Does the righteous one work for the TFGM or has shares in the company[/p][/quote]It isn't a company it is a local government quango and as such doesn't have shares! Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) is the public body responsible for co-ordinating public transport services throughout Greater Manchester, in North West England. The organisation traces its origins to the Transport Act 1968, when the SELNEC Passenger Transport Executive was established to co-ordinate public transport in and around Manchester. Between 1974 and 2011 this body was known as the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (abbreviated GMPTE), until a reformation of local government arrangements in Greater Manchester granted the body more powers and prompted a corporate rebranding. The strategies and policies of Transport for Greater Manchester are set by the Greater Manchester Combined Authority and its Transport for Greater Manchester Committee. Operating with powers comparable to Transport for London, Transport for Greater Manchester is responsible for investments in improving transport services and facilities, and supporting the largest regional economy outside London. It is the executive arm of the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee (the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Authority between 1974 and 2011) which funds and makes policies for TfGM. The authority is made up of 33 councillors appointed from the ten Greater Manchester districts (Bolton, Bury, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford and Wigan). But no I don't work for TfGm or have shares in a the local Government Quango, but I do have shares in Nederlandse Spooorwegen, Transdev and ITV plc The Righteous One
  • Score: -22

5:50pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Gore Seer says...

Buses Services Being Cut, Privet Hire Expand, The Reality Of It All Is, We Are Being Made To Use Private Hire, Thats The Argument.
Buses Services Being Cut, Privet Hire Expand, The Reality Of It All Is, We Are Being Made To Use Private Hire, Thats The Argument. Gore Seer
  • Score: 19

6:51pm Mon 21 Apr 14

merryhell1@hotmail.co.uk says...

It costs £3.00 on a bus for two people from where I live to town and £2.50 in a lovely Metro taxi from my door to my destination so why the hell would I put myself through the agro and bother to get a bus?
It costs £3.00 on a bus for two people from where I live to town and £2.50 in a lovely Metro taxi from my door to my destination so why the hell would I put myself through the agro and bother to get a bus? merryhell1@hotmail.co.uk
  • Score: -20

9:08pm Mon 21 Apr 14

Phil from Smithills says...

The Righteous One wrote:
David 1957 wrote:
Does the righteous one work for the TFGM or has shares in the company
It isn't a company it is a local government quango and as such doesn't have shares!


Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) is the public body responsible for co-ordinating public transport services throughout Greater Manchester, in North West England. The organisation traces its origins to the Transport Act 1968, when the SELNEC Passenger Transport Executive was established to co-ordinate public transport in and around Manchester. Between 1974 and 2011 this body was known as the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (abbreviated GMPTE), until a reformation of local government arrangements in Greater Manchester granted the body more powers and prompted a corporate rebranding. The strategies and policies of Transport for Greater Manchester are set by the Greater Manchester Combined Authority and its Transport for Greater Manchester Committee.

Operating with powers comparable to Transport for London, Transport for Greater Manchester is responsible for investments in improving transport services and facilities, and supporting the largest regional economy outside London. It is the executive arm of the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee (the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Authority between 1974 and 2011) which funds and makes policies for TfGM. The authority is made up of 33 councillors appointed from the ten Greater Manchester districts (Bolton, Bury, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford and Wigan).



But no I don't work for TfGm or have shares in a the local Government Quango, but I do have shares in Nederlandse Spooorwegen, Transdev and ITV plc
That is a long winded answer to a very short question , a simple Yes its a local government Quango and no I don't have shares in it... would have sufficed.

A thesis on the matter was not needed.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]David 1957[/bold] wrote: Does the righteous one work for the TFGM or has shares in the company[/p][/quote]It isn't a company it is a local government quango and as such doesn't have shares! Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) is the public body responsible for co-ordinating public transport services throughout Greater Manchester, in North West England. The organisation traces its origins to the Transport Act 1968, when the SELNEC Passenger Transport Executive was established to co-ordinate public transport in and around Manchester. Between 1974 and 2011 this body was known as the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (abbreviated GMPTE), until a reformation of local government arrangements in Greater Manchester granted the body more powers and prompted a corporate rebranding. The strategies and policies of Transport for Greater Manchester are set by the Greater Manchester Combined Authority and its Transport for Greater Manchester Committee. Operating with powers comparable to Transport for London, Transport for Greater Manchester is responsible for investments in improving transport services and facilities, and supporting the largest regional economy outside London. It is the executive arm of the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee (the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Authority between 1974 and 2011) which funds and makes policies for TfGM. The authority is made up of 33 councillors appointed from the ten Greater Manchester districts (Bolton, Bury, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford and Wigan). But no I don't work for TfGm or have shares in a the local Government Quango, but I do have shares in Nederlandse Spooorwegen, Transdev and ITV plc[/p][/quote]That is a long winded answer to a very short question , a simple Yes its a local government Quango and no I don't have shares in it... would have sufficed. A thesis on the matter was not needed. Phil from Smithills
  • Score: 42

11:32am Thu 24 Apr 14

Ernagy2 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
In fact, taken from the website, this is what TfGM does, many of which have to be done under various laws introduced since the 1985 Transport Act:-

Transport for Greater Manchester is the delivery arm of an elected body: the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, a new strategic regional authority with functions relating to economic development and regeneration, regional planning, transport, skills and training, and air quality.

The Combined Authority has taken over the transport functions previously carried out by Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority, as well as some additional responsibilities that previously sat with the local authorities. It has set up a joint committee - the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee - to manage these responsibilities.

Transport for Greater Manchester will be responsible for implementing the policies and decisions of the elected body.

We will continue to carry out the responsibilities previously provided by GMPTE:

paying for bus services which are not provided commercially by bus operators.

owning bus stations, shelters and stops in Greater Manchester and working to ensure all the information passengers see there is correct.

subsidising concessionary fares and free travel facilities on buses throughout the region, including paying to keep non-profitable services running where passengers need them most

carrying out the policies of an elected authority to ensure that local rail services meet local travel needs

owning Metrolink

campaigning to promote public transport in Greater Manchester, to improve the environment and cut congestion

To this will be added responsibility for:

The installation, maintenance and management of traffic signals

Maintaining highway databases, surveys, modelling, analysis, appraisals and advice

Highway route performance, incident response and event management via a traffic control centre

Partnership working to provide a shared strategic road safety analysis and recommendations on interventions

Preparation of the Local Transport Plan, for approval by the Combined Authority, would also be carried out solely by TfGM.

In practical terms, this will mean the addition of new functional units to a new-look organisation.

These bodies are:

Greater Manchester Urban Traffic Control Unit (GMUTC)

Greater Manchester Transportation Unit (GMTU)

Greater Manchester Joint Road Safety Group (GMJRSG)

Greater Manchester Joint Transport Team (GMJTT)

GM ITA Policy Unit

The transport functions of the Combined Authority & Transport for Greater Manchester Committee will continue to be funded by the transport levy (in the same way as GMITA/GMPTE were funded) and the non-transport functions will also be funded by contributions from the district councils.


The Transport for Greater Manchester Committee


The membership of the committee will mirror the membership of the former Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority.

There will 33 members from the ten districts.

Most of the transport functions previously carried out by GMITA will be delegated by the Combined Authority to the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee.

District authorities will also delegate some of their transport and traffic related functions to the new committee.

Functions not previously carried out by GMPTE, which will be part of the new committee's responsibility, include:

traffic lights and signals

road safety

data collection

The committee will make recommendations in the following areas for approval by the Combined Authority:

setting the revenue budget and the issue of a levy

approving the borrowing of TfGM

approving the capital programme and approving schemes to be funded by the Greater Manchester Transport Fund

approving the Local Transport Plan

ratifying the appointment of a Chief Executive and other executive and non-executive directors
Interesting that TFGM can own Metrolink, decide on fares and to some extent routes, but buses can't be owned by local authorities or TFGM - don't you think?

Perhaps Bolton council could introduced trams or perhaps the old trambuses to the streets of Bolton, thus getting around the rules?
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: In fact, taken from the website, this is what TfGM does, many of which have to be done under various laws introduced since the 1985 Transport Act:- Transport for Greater Manchester is the delivery arm of an elected body: the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, a new strategic regional authority with functions relating to economic development and regeneration, regional planning, transport, skills and training, and air quality. The Combined Authority has taken over the transport functions previously carried out by Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority, as well as some additional responsibilities that previously sat with the local authorities. It has set up a joint committee - the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee - to manage these responsibilities. Transport for Greater Manchester will be responsible for implementing the policies and decisions of the elected body. We will continue to carry out the responsibilities previously provided by GMPTE: paying for bus services which are not provided commercially by bus operators. owning bus stations, shelters and stops in Greater Manchester and working to ensure all the information passengers see there is correct. subsidising concessionary fares and free travel facilities on buses throughout the region, including paying to keep non-profitable services running where passengers need them most carrying out the policies of an elected authority to ensure that local rail services meet local travel needs owning Metrolink campaigning to promote public transport in Greater Manchester, to improve the environment and cut congestion To this will be added responsibility for: The installation, maintenance and management of traffic signals Maintaining highway databases, surveys, modelling, analysis, appraisals and advice Highway route performance, incident response and event management via a traffic control centre Partnership working to provide a shared strategic road safety analysis and recommendations on interventions Preparation of the Local Transport Plan, for approval by the Combined Authority, would also be carried out solely by TfGM. In practical terms, this will mean the addition of new functional units to a new-look organisation. These bodies are: Greater Manchester Urban Traffic Control Unit (GMUTC) Greater Manchester Transportation Unit (GMTU) Greater Manchester Joint Road Safety Group (GMJRSG) Greater Manchester Joint Transport Team (GMJTT) GM ITA Policy Unit The transport functions of the Combined Authority & Transport for Greater Manchester Committee will continue to be funded by the transport levy (in the same way as GMITA/GMPTE were funded) and the non-transport functions will also be funded by contributions from the district councils. The Transport for Greater Manchester Committee The membership of the committee will mirror the membership of the former Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority. There will 33 members from the ten districts. Most of the transport functions previously carried out by GMITA will be delegated by the Combined Authority to the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee. District authorities will also delegate some of their transport and traffic related functions to the new committee. Functions not previously carried out by GMPTE, which will be part of the new committee's responsibility, include: traffic lights and signals road safety data collection The committee will make recommendations in the following areas for approval by the Combined Authority: setting the revenue budget and the issue of a levy approving the borrowing of TfGM approving the capital programme and approving schemes to be funded by the Greater Manchester Transport Fund approving the Local Transport Plan ratifying the appointment of a Chief Executive and other executive and non-executive directors[/p][/quote]Interesting that TFGM can own Metrolink, decide on fares and to some extent routes, but buses can't be owned by local authorities or TFGM - don't you think? Perhaps Bolton council could introduced trams or perhaps the old trambuses to the streets of Bolton, thus getting around the rules? Ernagy2
  • Score: 0

12:11am Fri 25 Apr 14

The Righteous One says...

Ernagy2 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
In fact, taken from the website, this is what TfGM does, many of which have to be done under various laws introduced since the 1985 Transport Act:-

Transport for Greater Manchester is the delivery arm of an elected body: the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, a new strategic regional authority with functions relating to economic development and regeneration, regional planning, transport, skills and training, and air quality.

The Combined Authority has taken over the transport functions previously carried out by Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority, as well as some additional responsibilities that previously sat with the local authorities. It has set up a joint committee - the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee - to manage these responsibilities.

Transport for Greater Manchester will be responsible for implementing the policies and decisions of the elected body.

We will continue to carry out the responsibilities previously provided by GMPTE:

paying for bus services which are not provided commercially by bus operators.

owning bus stations, shelters and stops in Greater Manchester and working to ensure all the information passengers see there is correct.

subsidising concessionary fares and free travel facilities on buses throughout the region, including paying to keep non-profitable services running where passengers need them most

carrying out the policies of an elected authority to ensure that local rail services meet local travel needs

owning Metrolink

campaigning to promote public transport in Greater Manchester, to improve the environment and cut congestion

To this will be added responsibility for:

The installation, maintenance and management of traffic signals

Maintaining highway databases, surveys, modelling, analysis, appraisals and advice

Highway route performance, incident response and event management via a traffic control centre

Partnership working to provide a shared strategic road safety analysis and recommendations on interventions

Preparation of the Local Transport Plan, for approval by the Combined Authority, would also be carried out solely by TfGM.

In practical terms, this will mean the addition of new functional units to a new-look organisation.

These bodies are:

Greater Manchester Urban Traffic Control Unit (GMUTC)

Greater Manchester Transportation Unit (GMTU)

Greater Manchester Joint Road Safety Group (GMJRSG)

Greater Manchester Joint Transport Team (GMJTT)

GM ITA Policy Unit

The transport functions of the Combined Authority & Transport for Greater Manchester Committee will continue to be funded by the transport levy (in the same way as GMITA/GMPTE were funded) and the non-transport functions will also be funded by contributions from the district councils.


The Transport for Greater Manchester Committee


The membership of the committee will mirror the membership of the former Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority.

There will 33 members from the ten districts.

Most of the transport functions previously carried out by GMITA will be delegated by the Combined Authority to the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee.

District authorities will also delegate some of their transport and traffic related functions to the new committee.

Functions not previously carried out by GMPTE, which will be part of the new committee's responsibility, include:

traffic lights and signals

road safety

data collection

The committee will make recommendations in the following areas for approval by the Combined Authority:

setting the revenue budget and the issue of a levy

approving the borrowing of TfGM

approving the capital programme and approving schemes to be funded by the Greater Manchester Transport Fund

approving the Local Transport Plan

ratifying the appointment of a Chief Executive and other executive and non-executive directors
Interesting that TFGM can own Metrolink, decide on fares and to some extent routes, but buses can't be owned by local authorities or TFGM - don't you think?

Perhaps Bolton council could introduced trams or perhaps the old trambuses to the streets of Bolton, thus getting around the rules?
That is what I am getting at when it comes to public transport our laws are a complete mess!!!


Metrolink is owned by TfGM but it can't operate the system, by law, and as such currently has Stagecoach managing the day to day running.

As Bolton financially input into TfGM, all thanks to GMCA which we are part of, and legally bound to nowadays! Therefore it cannot do its own thing and would have to get approval to operate from TfGM, AGMA and from Westminster!!!
[quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: In fact, taken from the website, this is what TfGM does, many of which have to be done under various laws introduced since the 1985 Transport Act:- Transport for Greater Manchester is the delivery arm of an elected body: the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, a new strategic regional authority with functions relating to economic development and regeneration, regional planning, transport, skills and training, and air quality. The Combined Authority has taken over the transport functions previously carried out by Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority, as well as some additional responsibilities that previously sat with the local authorities. It has set up a joint committee - the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee - to manage these responsibilities. Transport for Greater Manchester will be responsible for implementing the policies and decisions of the elected body. We will continue to carry out the responsibilities previously provided by GMPTE: paying for bus services which are not provided commercially by bus operators. owning bus stations, shelters and stops in Greater Manchester and working to ensure all the information passengers see there is correct. subsidising concessionary fares and free travel facilities on buses throughout the region, including paying to keep non-profitable services running where passengers need them most carrying out the policies of an elected authority to ensure that local rail services meet local travel needs owning Metrolink campaigning to promote public transport in Greater Manchester, to improve the environment and cut congestion To this will be added responsibility for: The installation, maintenance and management of traffic signals Maintaining highway databases, surveys, modelling, analysis, appraisals and advice Highway route performance, incident response and event management via a traffic control centre Partnership working to provide a shared strategic road safety analysis and recommendations on interventions Preparation of the Local Transport Plan, for approval by the Combined Authority, would also be carried out solely by TfGM. In practical terms, this will mean the addition of new functional units to a new-look organisation. These bodies are: Greater Manchester Urban Traffic Control Unit (GMUTC) Greater Manchester Transportation Unit (GMTU) Greater Manchester Joint Road Safety Group (GMJRSG) Greater Manchester Joint Transport Team (GMJTT) GM ITA Policy Unit The transport functions of the Combined Authority & Transport for Greater Manchester Committee will continue to be funded by the transport levy (in the same way as GMITA/GMPTE were funded) and the non-transport functions will also be funded by contributions from the district councils. The Transport for Greater Manchester Committee The membership of the committee will mirror the membership of the former Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority. There will 33 members from the ten districts. Most of the transport functions previously carried out by GMITA will be delegated by the Combined Authority to the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee. District authorities will also delegate some of their transport and traffic related functions to the new committee. Functions not previously carried out by GMPTE, which will be part of the new committee's responsibility, include: traffic lights and signals road safety data collection The committee will make recommendations in the following areas for approval by the Combined Authority: setting the revenue budget and the issue of a levy approving the borrowing of TfGM approving the capital programme and approving schemes to be funded by the Greater Manchester Transport Fund approving the Local Transport Plan ratifying the appointment of a Chief Executive and other executive and non-executive directors[/p][/quote]Interesting that TFGM can own Metrolink, decide on fares and to some extent routes, but buses can't be owned by local authorities or TFGM - don't you think? Perhaps Bolton council could introduced trams or perhaps the old trambuses to the streets of Bolton, thus getting around the rules?[/p][/quote]That is what I am getting at when it comes to public transport our laws are a complete mess!!! Metrolink is owned by TfGM but it can't operate the system, by law, and as such currently has Stagecoach managing the day to day running. As Bolton financially input into TfGM, all thanks to GMCA which we are part of, and legally bound to nowadays! Therefore it cannot do its own thing and would have to get approval to operate from TfGM, AGMA and from Westminster!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: 0

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