5000 Muslims march for prophet's birthday in Nelson

This Is Lancashire: 5000 Muslims march for prophet's birthday in Nelson 5000 Muslims march for prophet's birthday in Nelson

THOUSANDS of Muslims marched through the streets of Nelson today to celebrate the prophet Muhammad’s birthday.

A plane was also seen flying over Pendle, with a banner saying 'We Love Muhammad-Mercy To All Mankind’.

The annual march was organised by mosques in Pendle, with the lead taken by Ghausia Mosque in Nelson.

The cost of the march and the plane were met by donations from the community.

Around 5,000 people from Burnley, Pendle and Manchester took part in the march, which set off from Ghausia Mosque, near Morrisons, at 10.30am.

The procession made its way along Scotland Road, Leeds Road and Barkerhouse Road before moving through to Chapel House Road.

It then travelled along Railway Street and Manchester Road, before heading back to the mosque via Every Street to share food and listen to speeches.

Several politicians joined the local Muslim community, including Pendle MP Andrew Stephenson, several councillors, the Labour Party’s parliamentary candidate for Pendle Azhar Ali, and North West European election candidate Afzal Khan.

Pendle councillor Mohammed Iqbal took part in the procession. He said: “Muslims celebrate the birthday of Muhammad like Christians celebrate Christmas. The march brings people together from across the area. “This year was one of the biggest ever marches.

“It went very well. It was very well attended and very well organised and everyone went away happy.”

Pendle MP Andrew Stephenson tweeted: “Pleased to join the Muslim Community in Nelson earlier today for the celebration of the birthday of the Prophet Muhammad.”

Comments (95)

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7:30pm Sun 12 Jan 14

happycyclist says...

Be afraid.
Be afraid. happycyclist

7:32pm Sun 12 Jan 14

darwenTower says...

happycyclist wrote:
Be afraid.
Afraid of Mercy to all Mankind?
[quote][p][bold]happycyclist[/bold] wrote: Be afraid.[/p][/quote]Afraid of Mercy to all Mankind? darwenTower

7:34pm Sun 12 Jan 14

You're not mugging me off that easily says...

I hope the "cost of the parade" included the cost of the road closures.
I hope the "cost of the parade" included the cost of the road closures. You're not mugging me off that easily

7:38pm Sun 12 Jan 14

Excluded again says...

What harm did they do? They had a public parade to celebrate a birthday and paid for the costs themselves. There are no reports of any trouble.
What harm did they do? They had a public parade to celebrate a birthday and paid for the costs themselves. There are no reports of any trouble. Excluded again

8:09pm Sun 12 Jan 14

ron1946 says...

how many of the 5000 were females or was it just a lads day out ?
how many of the 5000 were females or was it just a lads day out ? ron1946

8:11pm Sun 12 Jan 14

glossopkid says...

Our group was invited to see the procession and see the harmony, hospitality of the Nelson people, where we were welcomed by the Moslem Community, It was peaceful and there was loads to eat.

Really did enjoy it, and I just want to say thank-you for sharing such a special event with the rest of us.
Our group was invited to see the procession and see the harmony, hospitality of the Nelson people, where we were welcomed by the Moslem Community, It was peaceful and there was loads to eat. Really did enjoy it, and I just want to say thank-you for sharing such a special event with the rest of us. glossopkid

8:24pm Sun 12 Jan 14

darwenTower says...

darwenTower wrote:
happycyclist wrote:
Be afraid.
Afraid of Mercy to all Mankind?
2 thumbs downs so far?

For what?
[quote][p][bold]darwenTower[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]happycyclist[/bold] wrote: Be afraid.[/p][/quote]Afraid of Mercy to all Mankind?[/p][/quote]2 thumbs downs so far? For what? darwenTower

8:25pm Sun 12 Jan 14

englishmuslim says...

This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen. englishmuslim

8:28pm Sun 12 Jan 14

glossopkid says...

You're not mugging me off that easily wrote:
I hope the "cost of the parade" included the cost of the road closures.
Come on Muggins, you could have asked your pals who were with the parade, I am sure they would have explained it to you.

Your colleagues really enjoyed the food, they had a good nosh-up. Tell you what come next year and see how it is for yourself. Our group of friendly non-ethnics will be there.
[quote][p][bold]You're not mugging me off that easily[/bold] wrote: I hope the "cost of the parade" included the cost of the road closures.[/p][/quote]Come on Muggins, you could have asked your pals who were with the parade, I am sure they would have explained it to you. Your colleagues really enjoyed the food, they had a good nosh-up. Tell you what come next year and see how it is for yourself. Our group of friendly non-ethnics will be there. glossopkid

8:41pm Sun 12 Jan 14

Excluded again says...

englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
That's the thing with a free society. You can't corale people's thoughts and practices.

Expect more 'innovations' as people borrow what they think are good ideas from the communities around them. new practices will emerge and become 'tradition' - as they do anywhere where people are not forced to be orthodox.
[quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]That's the thing with a free society. You can't corale people's thoughts and practices. Expect more 'innovations' as people borrow what they think are good ideas from the communities around them. new practices will emerge and become 'tradition' - as they do anywhere where people are not forced to be orthodox. Excluded again

8:49pm Sun 12 Jan 14

You're not mugging me off that easily says...

glossopkid wrote:
Our group was invited to see the procession and see the harmony, hospitality of the Nelson people, where we were welcomed by the Moslem Community, It was peaceful and there was loads to eat.

Really did enjoy it, and I just want to say thank-you for sharing such a special event with the rest of us.
Tidy!

Did they have lamb samosas? I love them! With a bit of riata dip. Yum yum.
[quote][p][bold]glossopkid[/bold] wrote: Our group was invited to see the procession and see the harmony, hospitality of the Nelson people, where we were welcomed by the Moslem Community, It was peaceful and there was loads to eat. Really did enjoy it, and I just want to say thank-you for sharing such a special event with the rest of us.[/p][/quote]Tidy! Did they have lamb samosas? I love them! With a bit of riata dip. Yum yum. You're not mugging me off that easily

8:52pm Sun 12 Jan 14

You're not mugging me off that easily says...

glossopkid wrote:
You're not mugging me off that easily wrote:
I hope the "cost of the parade" included the cost of the road closures.
Come on Muggins, you could have asked your pals who were with the parade, I am sure they would have explained it to you.

Your colleagues really enjoyed the food, they had a good nosh-up. Tell you what come next year and see how it is for yourself. Our group of friendly non-ethnics will be there.
Ha ha! I might just do that Glossop!

And my friends wouldn't have been at the parade so they won't know anything about it! :)
[quote][p][bold]glossopkid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]You're not mugging me off that easily[/bold] wrote: I hope the "cost of the parade" included the cost of the road closures.[/p][/quote]Come on Muggins, you could have asked your pals who were with the parade, I am sure they would have explained it to you. Your colleagues really enjoyed the food, they had a good nosh-up. Tell you what come next year and see how it is for yourself. Our group of friendly non-ethnics will be there.[/p][/quote]Ha ha! I might just do that Glossop! And my friends wouldn't have been at the parade so they won't know anything about it! :) You're not mugging me off that easily

8:59pm Sun 12 Jan 14

glossopkid says...

ron1946 wrote:
how many of the 5000 were females or was it just a lads day out ?
This is so stereotypical comment. It really is sad to read this comment!!!!

There were moslem ladies everywhere, standing next to food stalls. Another thing which pleased the eyes was many ladies were driving their cars with the old, disabled and young children as passengers.

It really was a community spirited event.
[quote][p][bold]ron1946[/bold] wrote: how many of the 5000 were females or was it just a lads day out ?[/p][/quote]This is so stereotypical comment. It really is sad to read this comment!!!! There were moslem ladies everywhere, standing next to food stalls. Another thing which pleased the eyes was many ladies were driving their cars with the old, disabled and young children as passengers. It really was a community spirited event. glossopkid

9:10pm Sun 12 Jan 14

ron1946 says...

glossopkid wrote:
ron1946 wrote: how many of the 5000 were females or was it just a lads day out ?
This is so stereotypical comment. It really is sad to read this comment!!!! There were moslem ladies everywhere, standing next to food stalls. Another thing which pleased the eyes was many ladies were driving their cars with the old, disabled and young children as passengers. It really was a community spirited event.
yes but how many females were marching through the town ?
[quote][p][bold]glossopkid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ron1946[/bold] wrote: how many of the 5000 were females or was it just a lads day out ?[/p][/quote]This is so stereotypical comment. It really is sad to read this comment!!!! There were moslem ladies everywhere, standing next to food stalls. Another thing which pleased the eyes was many ladies were driving their cars with the old, disabled and young children as passengers. It really was a community spirited event.[/p][/quote]yes but how many females were marching through the town ? ron1946

9:17pm Sun 12 Jan 14

glossopkid says...

ron1946 wrote:
glossopkid wrote:
ron1946 wrote: how many of the 5000 were females or was it just a lads day out ?
This is so stereotypical comment. It really is sad to read this comment!!!! There were moslem ladies everywhere, standing next to food stalls. Another thing which pleased the eyes was many ladies were driving their cars with the old, disabled and young children as passengers. It really was a community spirited event.
yes but how many females were marching through the town ?
Does that really matter?
[quote][p][bold]ron1946[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]glossopkid[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ron1946[/bold] wrote: how many of the 5000 were females or was it just a lads day out ?[/p][/quote]This is so stereotypical comment. It really is sad to read this comment!!!! There were moslem ladies everywhere, standing next to food stalls. Another thing which pleased the eyes was many ladies were driving their cars with the old, disabled and young children as passengers. It really was a community spirited event.[/p][/quote]yes but how many females were marching through the town ?[/p][/quote]Does that really matter? glossopkid

9:38pm Sun 12 Jan 14

Graham Hartley says...

I have attended and enjoyed the prophet's birthday celebrations in Nelson, which are so well done there. Yes, this occasion is a lads' day out, as ron1946 describes it. The ladies enjoy the event quite as much as the lads, it has always appeared to me.
I have attended and enjoyed the prophet's birthday celebrations in Nelson, which are so well done there. Yes, this occasion is a lads' day out, as ron1946 describes it. The ladies enjoy the event quite as much as the lads, it has always appeared to me. Graham Hartley

10:05pm Sun 12 Jan 14

topman01 says...

englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division.
one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self

many thanks
[quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division. one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self many thanks topman01

10:25pm Sun 12 Jan 14

Desi nelsoner says...

topman01 wrote:
englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division.
one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self

many thanks
Why do the Saudis not celebrate milaad? You would think that they would take the lead if it was something the Prophet would have wanted us to do. And I'm not a Wahhabi or a Deobandi - I'm alhamdullilah a MUSLIM.
[quote][p][bold]topman01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division. one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self many thanks[/p][/quote]Why do the Saudis not celebrate milaad? You would think that they would take the lead if it was something the Prophet would have wanted us to do. And I'm not a Wahhabi or a Deobandi - I'm alhamdullilah a MUSLIM. Desi nelsoner

10:29pm Sun 12 Jan 14

Desi nelsoner says...

happycyclist wrote:
Be afraid.
Afraid of what? Care to enlighten us??
[quote][p][bold]happycyclist[/bold] wrote: Be afraid.[/p][/quote]Afraid of what? Care to enlighten us?? Desi nelsoner

10:35pm Sun 12 Jan 14

StopDeludingYourself says...

topman01 wrote:
englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division.
one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self

many thanks
Seriously? Are you being serious? You think all the donations used to fund this march, road closures, car hire, the airplane with the message could have not been spent better? What about the millions of people (Muslims or non-Muslims) starving? What about the toddlers walking in Syria almost naked in the freezing conditions? Have you watched the videos lately? But yet you deem it appropriate to spend probably thousands for a one day celebration. Lets not even get into the argument whether it is allowed in Islam or not!

You will think Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) would be proud of you walking through Nelson? You really think you will get more rewarded for what happened today? The time you took walking through the streets, wouldn't that have been better repenting towards your creator?

Please, please open your eyes!
[quote][p][bold]topman01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division. one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self many thanks[/p][/quote]Seriously? Are you being serious? You think all the donations used to fund this march, road closures, car hire, the airplane with the message could have not been spent better? What about the millions of people (Muslims or non-Muslims) starving? What about the toddlers walking in Syria almost naked in the freezing conditions? Have you watched the videos lately? But yet you deem it appropriate to spend probably thousands for a one day celebration. Lets not even get into the argument whether it is allowed in Islam or not! You will think Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) would be proud of you walking through Nelson? You really think you will get more rewarded for what happened today? The time you took walking through the streets, wouldn't that have been better repenting towards your creator? Please, please open your eyes! StopDeludingYourself

2:19am Mon 13 Jan 14

Reality50 says...

5,000 now will be 20,000 in a few years. Shame the LT haven't any photo's of the event. Andrew Stephenson blatantly courting the Muslim vote i see.
5,000 now will be 20,000 in a few years. Shame the LT haven't any photo's of the event. Andrew Stephenson blatantly courting the Muslim vote i see. Reality50

3:52am Mon 13 Jan 14

A Game of Blue & White Halves says...

Desi nelsoner wrote:
topman01 wrote:
englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division.
one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self

many thanks
Why do the Saudis not celebrate milaad? You would think that they would take the lead if it was something the Prophet would have wanted us to do. And I'm not a Wahhabi or a Deobandi - I'm alhamdullilah a MUSLIM.
The Saudis and the vast majority of Muslims don't celebrate because it's an INNOVATION which was manufactured some 400 years after the Prophet's passing.

It's interesting that His companions and the generations of pious people who followed, never celebrated this event, yet it is, primarily, - religiously (pun intended) followed by a relatively small band, emanating from predominantly, Barelwi-laden parts of India and Pakistan.
[quote][p][bold]Desi nelsoner[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]topman01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division. one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self many thanks[/p][/quote]Why do the Saudis not celebrate milaad? You would think that they would take the lead if it was something the Prophet would have wanted us to do. And I'm not a Wahhabi or a Deobandi - I'm alhamdullilah a MUSLIM.[/p][/quote]The Saudis and the vast majority of Muslims don't celebrate because it's an INNOVATION which was manufactured some 400 years after the Prophet's passing. It's interesting that His companions and the generations of pious people who followed, never celebrated this event, yet it is, primarily, - religiously (pun intended) followed by a relatively small band, emanating from predominantly, Barelwi-laden parts of India and Pakistan. A Game of Blue & White Halves

6:50am Mon 13 Jan 14

AnthonyUK says...

This sort of thing should be banned from the streets stuff human rights/stuff racism etc. It has NO place in this country whatsoever.
This sort of thing should be banned from the streets stuff human rights/stuff racism etc. It has NO place in this country whatsoever. AnthonyUK

7:59am Mon 13 Jan 14

Excluded again says...

AnthonyUK wrote:
This sort of thing should be banned from the streets stuff human rights/stuff racism etc. It has NO place in this country whatsoever.
So people should not be free to practice whatever religion they chose peacefully? The state should say which religions people can follow or not?

Our ancestors fought for hundreds of years to escape from this. Look at countries where this approach is still in place (like, say, Saudi Arabia). Would you want to live in such a country?
[quote][p][bold]AnthonyUK[/bold] wrote: This sort of thing should be banned from the streets stuff human rights/stuff racism etc. It has NO place in this country whatsoever.[/p][/quote]So people should not be free to practice whatever religion they chose peacefully? The state should say which religions people can follow or not? Our ancestors fought for hundreds of years to escape from this. Look at countries where this approach is still in place (like, say, Saudi Arabia). Would you want to live in such a country? Excluded again

8:26am Mon 13 Jan 14

A Darener says...

englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
Christians copied Pagans stealing a heathen festival in Dec renaming it Christmas and using various parts of the Pagan celebrations, holly wreaths for example.
[quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]Christians copied Pagans stealing a heathen festival in Dec renaming it Christmas and using various parts of the Pagan celebrations, holly wreaths for example. A Darener

9:04am Mon 13 Jan 14

N4you! says...

StopDeludingYourself wrote:
topman01 wrote:
englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division.
one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self

many thanks
Seriously? Are you being serious? You think all the donations used to fund this march, road closures, car hire, the airplane with the message could have not been spent better? What about the millions of people (Muslims or non-Muslims) starving? What about the toddlers walking in Syria almost naked in the freezing conditions? Have you watched the videos lately? But yet you deem it appropriate to spend probably thousands for a one day celebration. Lets not even get into the argument whether it is allowed in Islam or not!

You will think Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) would be proud of you walking through Nelson? You really think you will get more rewarded for what happened today? The time you took walking through the streets, wouldn't that have been better repenting towards your creator?

Please, please open your eyes!
its farz (compulsory) to cover your sattar (between your navel and knees)
and the extra clothes you are wearing, you're just wasting money maybe you najdies should walk around naked
[quote][p][bold]StopDeludingYourself[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]topman01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division. one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self many thanks[/p][/quote]Seriously? Are you being serious? You think all the donations used to fund this march, road closures, car hire, the airplane with the message could have not been spent better? What about the millions of people (Muslims or non-Muslims) starving? What about the toddlers walking in Syria almost naked in the freezing conditions? Have you watched the videos lately? But yet you deem it appropriate to spend probably thousands for a one day celebration. Lets not even get into the argument whether it is allowed in Islam or not! You will think Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) would be proud of you walking through Nelson? You really think you will get more rewarded for what happened today? The time you took walking through the streets, wouldn't that have been better repenting towards your creator? Please, please open your eyes![/p][/quote]its farz (compulsory) to cover your sattar (between your navel and knees) and the extra clothes you are wearing, you're just wasting money maybe you najdies should walk around naked N4you!

9:59am Mon 13 Jan 14

woolywords says...

englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
Entirely agree with your comment.
The lights at Xmas are from the Jewish festival of Hannukah.
Santa's red outfit from a Coca Cola advertising campaign.
The feasting from a Pagan ritual for the shortest day.
Xmas trees from a German tradition.
Xmas day was fixed by the Catholics.
As with many from that era, nobody was sure of the exact date of their birth.
And so it goes on..
Still, it's just a really good excuse to get a day off work, go for a walk in the fresh air, meet up with friends, have something to eat and a good gossip about this and that. And, if having a bit of religion about it means that you can gain some form of legitimacy for having a parade of pride, why not.
It's a long time to the Mela, isn't it.
[quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]Entirely agree with your comment. The lights at Xmas are from the Jewish festival of Hannukah. Santa's red outfit from a Coca Cola advertising campaign. The feasting from a Pagan ritual for the shortest day. Xmas trees from a German tradition. Xmas day was fixed by the Catholics. As with many from that era, nobody was sure of the exact date of their birth. And so it goes on.. Still, it's just a really good excuse to get a day off work, go for a walk in the fresh air, meet up with friends, have something to eat and a good gossip about this and that. And, if having a bit of religion about it means that you can gain some form of legitimacy for having a parade of pride, why not. It's a long time to the Mela, isn't it. woolywords

11:13am Mon 13 Jan 14

AnthonyUK says...

Excluded again wrote:
AnthonyUK wrote:
This sort of thing should be banned from the streets stuff human rights/stuff racism etc. It has NO place in this country whatsoever.
So people should not be free to practice whatever religion they chose peacefully? The state should say which religions people can follow or not?

Our ancestors fought for hundreds of years to escape from this. Look at countries where this approach is still in place (like, say, Saudi Arabia). Would you want to live in such a country?
It's nothing to do with Britain which is a christian country!!!
[quote][p][bold]Excluded again[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]AnthonyUK[/bold] wrote: This sort of thing should be banned from the streets stuff human rights/stuff racism etc. It has NO place in this country whatsoever.[/p][/quote]So people should not be free to practice whatever religion they chose peacefully? The state should say which religions people can follow or not? Our ancestors fought for hundreds of years to escape from this. Look at countries where this approach is still in place (like, say, Saudi Arabia). Would you want to live in such a country?[/p][/quote]It's nothing to do with Britain which is a christian country!!! AnthonyUK

12:12pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Active Citizen says...

Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia.

The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?)

Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it.

The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!!
Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia. The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?) Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it. The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!! Active Citizen

12:31pm Mon 13 Jan 14

englishmuslim says...

topman01 wrote:
englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division.
one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self

many thanks
Alhumdulillah I am Muslim. You're the one creating divisions by calling yourselves sunni, shia, madni, naqshbandi etc. Be Muslim and proud. Your religion was completed for you so stop adding extras on. Allah knows best!
[quote][p][bold]topman01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division. one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self many thanks[/p][/quote]Alhumdulillah I am Muslim. You're the one creating divisions by calling yourselves sunni, shia, madni, naqshbandi etc. Be Muslim and proud. Your religion was completed for you so stop adding extras on. Allah knows best! englishmuslim

2:53pm Mon 13 Jan 14

smmusa01 says...

This Englishmuslim user doesn't really know what is to be muslim. If you can't get joy from the significance of celebrating the mercy Allah has blessed you then you have the making of a hypocrite and will be wasted. Why rejected the opportunity to enhance your faith, and increase your love of the prophet peace be upon him. Where does it say it is a bad thing? And understand innovation can be good and bad.
This Englishmuslim user doesn't really know what is to be muslim. If you can't get joy from the significance of celebrating the mercy Allah has blessed you then you have the making of a hypocrite and will be wasted. Why rejected the opportunity to enhance your faith, and increase your love of the prophet peace be upon him. Where does it say it is a bad thing? And understand innovation can be good and bad. smmusa01

3:16pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Lancs - pensioner says...

englishmuslim wrote:
topman01 wrote:
englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division.
one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self

many thanks
Alhumdulillah I am Muslim. You're the one creating divisions by calling yourselves sunni, shia, madni, naqshbandi etc. Be Muslim and proud. Your religion was completed for you so stop adding extras on. Allah knows best!
What have all these religions done for us all, Muslim,Catholic,C of E, Jewish, and many more religions have create umpteen wars through the years with millions yes millions of innocent lives lost and we have divided opinions above, well in case we have all forgotten I hope like I did at Christmas you can all say a prayer for young Private Rigby, I'm sure he would have liked to spend his time with his family at Christmas but unfortunately he can't, don't let religion rule your life, celebrate it yes but no more than that, and make this world a better place to live.
[quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]topman01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division. one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self many thanks[/p][/quote]Alhumdulillah I am Muslim. You're the one creating divisions by calling yourselves sunni, shia, madni, naqshbandi etc. Be Muslim and proud. Your religion was completed for you so stop adding extras on. Allah knows best![/p][/quote]What have all these religions done for us all, Muslim,Catholic,C of E, Jewish, and many more religions have create umpteen wars through the years with millions yes millions of innocent lives lost and we have divided opinions above, well in case we have all forgotten I hope like I did at Christmas you can all say a prayer for young Private Rigby, I'm sure he would have liked to spend his time with his family at Christmas but unfortunately he can't, don't let religion rule your life, celebrate it yes but no more than that, and make this world a better place to live. Lancs - pensioner

6:34pm Mon 13 Jan 14

B52bomber says...

I want to know how many of the 5000 are incapacity benefit of disibility benefit
I want to know how many of the 5000 are incapacity benefit of disibility benefit B52bomber

6:40pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Steve4x4 says...

topman01 wrote:
englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division.
one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self

many thanks
You really are a numpty......there is enough Bullsh*t talked in the L.E.T, we don't need fairy stories and fables, heard them all at school.....maybe you should take time to learn the truth.......If it were not for allah there would not be all the bombing and killing that is going on in the middle east and africa....
[quote][p][bold]topman01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]EITHER u r a deodandi or wahabies who don't celebrate the best creation {muhammed s a w}.without him there wu;d not be this world so pls get a life and let everyone else enjoy the birth of our beloved prophet muhammed s a w . all u lot want is to creat division. one more thing u a re not coming into my grave im not coming into urs so pls keep ur opinion to ur self many thanks[/p][/quote]You really are a numpty......there is enough Bullsh*t talked in the L.E.T, we don't need fairy stories and fables, heard them all at school.....maybe you should take time to learn the truth.......If it were not for allah there would not be all the bombing and killing that is going on in the middle east and africa.... Steve4x4

7:41pm Mon 13 Jan 14

katypri says...

no problem with the parade but if i had been warned before hand I wouldnt have been trapped in the vivo garage on Manchester Road for 30 minutes, and believe me their was far more than 5000, all men and boys, so how did they all fit in the Mosque after I really do not know, surely an Health and Safety issue, By the way would we be allowed to do the same on Christmas day to celebrate the birth of Christ peacefully or would we be committing some racial act
no problem with the parade but if i had been warned before hand I wouldnt have been trapped in the vivo garage on Manchester Road for 30 minutes, and believe me their was far more than 5000, all men and boys, so how did they all fit in the Mosque after I really do not know, surely an Health and Safety issue, By the way would we be allowed to do the same on Christmas day to celebrate the birth of Christ peacefully or would we be committing some racial act katypri

7:56pm Mon 13 Jan 14

StopDeludingYourself says...

smmusa01 wrote:
This Englishmuslim user doesn't really know what is to be muslim. If you can't get joy from the significance of celebrating the mercy Allah has blessed you then you have the making of a hypocrite and will be wasted. Why rejected the opportunity to enhance your faith, and increase your love of the prophet peace be upon him. Where does it say it is a bad thing? And understand innovation can be good and bad.
Indeed you are right, but why waste the money on such things? Will you get awarded more for marching through the street or hiring airplanes, then sitting in the mosque reading the Quran or Praying? Donating the money to charity, which comes first?
[quote][p][bold]smmusa01[/bold] wrote: This Englishmuslim user doesn't really know what is to be muslim. If you can't get joy from the significance of celebrating the mercy Allah has blessed you then you have the making of a hypocrite and will be wasted. Why rejected the opportunity to enhance your faith, and increase your love of the prophet peace be upon him. Where does it say it is a bad thing? And understand innovation can be good and bad.[/p][/quote]Indeed you are right, but why waste the money on such things? Will you get awarded more for marching through the street or hiring airplanes, then sitting in the mosque reading the Quran or Praying? Donating the money to charity, which comes first? StopDeludingYourself

8:05pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Just an observer says...

Wondered why Blackburn was empty
Wondered why Blackburn was empty Just an observer

8:06pm Mon 13 Jan 14

the white witch says...

It does not matter what faith you believe in, it should be the law that if you come to a country you should respect that country`s faith and practise your own faith behind your own closed door not make other people`s lives a misery with a faith that was not the country`s status. England is a christian country but it seems like our councils are knocking down our churches and giving the plots for over run mosques. Now that is unjustifiable.
It does not matter what faith you believe in, it should be the law that if you come to a country you should respect that country`s faith and practise your own faith behind your own closed door not make other people`s lives a misery with a faith that was not the country`s status. England is a christian country but it seems like our councils are knocking down our churches and giving the plots for over run mosques. Now that is unjustifiable. the white witch

8:29pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Markus Spartacus says...

I suppose marching is better than kicking 7 shades out of a 15 year old kid........
I suppose marching is better than kicking 7 shades out of a 15 year old kid........ Markus Spartacus

8:32pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Biscay says...

Where are all the Asian women - are they not allowed to march and celebrate the Prophets birthday?
Where are all the Asian women - are they not allowed to march and celebrate the Prophets birthday? Biscay

8:45pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Biscay says...

darwenTower wrote:
darwenTower wrote:
happycyclist wrote:
Be afraid.
Afraid of Mercy to all Mankind?
2 thumbs downs so far?

For what?
I think it could be something to do with "The Mercy To All Mankind "that we tend to see in countries such as Algeria, Tunisia, Libyia, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh et al.
Apparently all in the name of Islam.
[quote][p][bold]darwenTower[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]darwenTower[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]happycyclist[/bold] wrote: Be afraid.[/p][/quote]Afraid of Mercy to all Mankind?[/p][/quote]2 thumbs downs so far? For what?[/p][/quote]I think it could be something to do with "The Mercy To All Mankind "that we tend to see in countries such as Algeria, Tunisia, Libyia, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh et al. Apparently all in the name of Islam. Biscay

9:54pm Mon 13 Jan 14

StopDeludingYourself says...

the white witch wrote:
It does not matter what faith you believe in, it should be the law that if you come to a country you should respect that country`s faith and practise your own faith behind your own closed door not make other people`s lives a misery with a faith that was not the country`s status. England is a christian country but it seems like our councils are knocking down our churches and giving the plots for over run mosques. Now that is unjustifiable.
Whilst your views are quite extreme, in essence some of it I agree! A part of Islam is not to cause a burden for society, these marches do just that!

In relation to Churches being knocked down, this cannot be pinned on the Muslim community, people are turning away from Churches causing a reduction in donations, thus causing them to be shut, as those are places of worship, which is ideal for Mosques!
[quote][p][bold]the white witch[/bold] wrote: It does not matter what faith you believe in, it should be the law that if you come to a country you should respect that country`s faith and practise your own faith behind your own closed door not make other people`s lives a misery with a faith that was not the country`s status. England is a christian country but it seems like our councils are knocking down our churches and giving the plots for over run mosques. Now that is unjustifiable.[/p][/quote]Whilst your views are quite extreme, in essence some of it I agree! A part of Islam is not to cause a burden for society, these marches do just that! In relation to Churches being knocked down, this cannot be pinned on the Muslim community, people are turning away from Churches causing a reduction in donations, thus causing them to be shut, as those are places of worship, which is ideal for Mosques! StopDeludingYourself

12:22am Tue 14 Jan 14

passingfootball says...

Active Citizen wrote:
Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia.

The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?)

Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it.

The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!!
@ Active Shitizen
What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to.

the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .
[quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia. The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?) Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it. The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!![/p][/quote]@ Active Shitizen What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to. the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not . passingfootball

7:06am Tue 14 Jan 14

AnthonyUK says...

the white witch wrote:
It does not matter what faith you believe in, it should be the law that if you come to a country you should respect that country`s faith and practise your own faith behind your own closed door not make other people`s lives a misery with a faith that was not the country`s status. England is a christian country but it seems like our councils are knocking down our churches and giving the plots for over run mosques. Now that is unjustifiable.
I agree with everything you say!
[quote][p][bold]the white witch[/bold] wrote: It does not matter what faith you believe in, it should be the law that if you come to a country you should respect that country`s faith and practise your own faith behind your own closed door not make other people`s lives a misery with a faith that was not the country`s status. England is a christian country but it seems like our councils are knocking down our churches and giving the plots for over run mosques. Now that is unjustifiable.[/p][/quote]I agree with everything you say! AnthonyUK

12:29pm Tue 14 Jan 14

leyton says...

This Englishmuslim user doesn't really know what is to be muslim. If you can't get joy from the significance of celebrating the mercy Allah has blessed you then you have the making of a hypocrite and will be wasted. Why rejected the opportunity to enhance your faith, and increase your love of the prophet peace be upon him. Where does it say it is a bad thing? And understand innovation can be good and bad.
does anyone understand this drivel?
This Englishmuslim user doesn't really know what is to be muslim. If you can't get joy from the significance of celebrating the mercy Allah has blessed you then you have the making of a hypocrite and will be wasted. Why rejected the opportunity to enhance your faith, and increase your love of the prophet peace be upon him. Where does it say it is a bad thing? And understand innovation can be good and bad. does anyone understand this drivel? leyton

12:52pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Owd Akela says...

Excluded again wrote:
What harm did they do? They had a public parade to celebrate a birthday and paid for the costs themselves. There are no reports of any trouble.
Unlike reports of aggresive behaviour at BNP marches!!
[quote][p][bold]Excluded again[/bold] wrote: What harm did they do? They had a public parade to celebrate a birthday and paid for the costs themselves. There are no reports of any trouble.[/p][/quote]Unlike reports of aggresive behaviour at BNP marches!! Owd Akela

3:17pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Active Citizen says...

passingfootball wrote:
Active Citizen wrote:
Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia.

The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?)

Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it.

The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!!
@ Active Shitizen
What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to.

the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .
You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month???

Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant!

So let's turn the table here:
Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO
Surely they knew about the need for Dawah?

All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers.

If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat???

Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!!

The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing.
[quote][p][bold]passingfootball[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia. The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?) Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it. The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!![/p][/quote]@ Active Shitizen What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to. the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .[/p][/quote]You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month??? Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant! So let's turn the table here: Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO Surely they knew about the need for Dawah? All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers. If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat??? Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!! The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing. Active Citizen

6:14pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Jim_Wise says...

Africa for the Africans, Asia for the Asians, White countries for everyone?

Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY White country and ONLY into White countries.

The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third-worlders and "assimilating" with them.

Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY White country and ONLY White countries to "assimilate" with all those non-Whites.

What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-Blacks were brought into EVERY Black country and ONLY into Black countries?
How long would it take anyone to realize I'm not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?
And how long would it take any sane Black man to notice this and what kind of psycho Black man wouldn't object to this?

But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the White race, liberals and respectable conservatives will agree that I am a naziwhowantstocloneh
itler.

They say they are “anti-racist”.
What they are is anti-White.
Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-White.
Africa for the Africans, Asia for the Asians, White countries for everyone? Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY White country and ONLY into White countries. The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third-worlders and "assimilating" with them. Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY White country and ONLY White countries to "assimilate" with all those non-Whites. What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-Blacks were brought into EVERY Black country and ONLY into Black countries? How long would it take anyone to realize I'm not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem? And how long would it take any sane Black man to notice this and what kind of psycho Black man wouldn't object to this? But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the White race, liberals and respectable conservatives will agree that I am a naziwhowantstocloneh itler. They say they are “anti-racist”. What they are is anti-White. Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-White. Jim_Wise

11:17pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Zai121 says...

englishmuslim wrote:
This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
That is ridiculous! Where does it say we can't celebrate the prophets birthday..
We are happy he came to this earth, he showed us a way of life, and we can't celebrate our beloved prophets birthday? What b.s.
Its a free country, just like Hindus and Christians, Muslims have every right to put lights up and honour our prophet. His way of life should be our way of life, but we can't celebrate his life and birth?
He was born, he has a birthday we can honour that in anyway we want. It's not ignorance, it's our way of showing and celebrating OUR love for OUR prophet.
[quote][p][bold]englishmuslim[/bold] wrote: This march has no significance on Islam. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upom him) never celebrated his own birthday. His companions never celebrated his birthday even after he passed away. All this is bidah (innovation) brought into Islam by the ignorant people. May Allah grant us all hidayah. Ameen. If you truly love Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then why don't these people fast on Mondays? Prophet Muhammad used to fast Mondays as he was born on a Monday. Also, why are Muslims imitating Christians and Hindus by putting up lights in their homes and mosques? Hindus put up lights during the festival of Diwali and Christians do the same at Christmas. Too much ignorance nowadays. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.[/p][/quote]That is ridiculous! Where does it say we can't celebrate the prophets birthday.. We are happy he came to this earth, he showed us a way of life, and we can't celebrate our beloved prophets birthday? What b.s. Its a free country, just like Hindus and Christians, Muslims have every right to put lights up and honour our prophet. His way of life should be our way of life, but we can't celebrate his life and birth? He was born, he has a birthday we can honour that in anyway we want. It's not ignorance, it's our way of showing and celebrating OUR love for OUR prophet. Zai121

2:25pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Did the Prophet (peace be upon him) celebrate his own birthday (mawlid/milad)?: Yes Evidence: Sahih Muslim, vol 2 Book of Sawm, Sunnan an Nasai’I, Volume 1, Page No. 450
Did the Prophet (peace be upon him) celebrate his own birthday (mawlid/milad)?: Yes Evidence: Sahih Muslim, vol 2 Book of Sawm, Sunnan an Nasai’I, Volume 1, Page No. 450 Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:25pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Did Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428
Did Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428 Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:26pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Did Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428
Did Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428 Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:26pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Did Uthmaan ibn Affaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428
Did Uthmaan ibn Affaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428 Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:26pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Did Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428
Did Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428 Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:27pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Did the Sahaba (may Allaah be pleased with them all) celebrate Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Sahih Bukhari Vol 2 Sayyuduna Hassan RadiAllahu anhu
Did the Sahaba (may Allaah be pleased with them all) celebrate Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Sahih Bukhari Vol 2 Sayyuduna Hassan RadiAllahu anhu Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:27pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

*Did Imam Abu Hanifah (may Allaah have mercy on him) Ever say Celebrating Mawlid is Haram/Innovation or Shirk ?: NO.

*Did Imam Muhammad Idrees ash-Shafee (may Allaah have mercy on him) Ever say Celebrating Mawlid is Haram/Innovation or Shirk ?: NO.

*Did Imam Maalik ibn Anas (may Allaah have mercy on him) Ever say Celebrating Mawlid is Haram/Innovation or Shirk ?: NO.

*Did Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (may Allaah have mercy on him) Ever say Celebrating Mawlid is Haram/Innovation or Shirk ?: NO.
*Did Imam Abu Hanifah (may Allaah have mercy on him) Ever say Celebrating Mawlid is Haram/Innovation or Shirk ?: NO. *Did Imam Muhammad Idrees ash-Shafee (may Allaah have mercy on him) Ever say Celebrating Mawlid is Haram/Innovation or Shirk ?: NO. *Did Imam Maalik ibn Anas (may Allaah have mercy on him) Ever say Celebrating Mawlid is Haram/Innovation or Shirk ?: NO. *Did Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (may Allaah have mercy on him) Ever say Celebrating Mawlid is Haram/Innovation or Shirk ?: NO. Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:27pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Did the any of the first THREE GENERATIONS of muslims celebrate Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence: Sahih Muslim Vol 2 Chapter of Migration to Madina
Did the any of the first THREE GENERATIONS of muslims celebrate Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence: Sahih Muslim Vol 2 Chapter of Migration to Madina Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:28pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Does the concept/belief of the 'celebration of Mawlid/Milad' exsist in the Views of any Previous Scholars?: Yes Evidence: Ibn Taymiyya Iqtidaa’ us-siraat-il-Mustaqe
em, page 294, Ibn Kathir Seerat unNabi & Tareekh Islam vol 13, Ibn Hajar Asqalani Fath ul Bari book of Nikah, Imam Jalaluddin Sayuti Al Hawi Lil Fatawi, Shah Abdul haq Dehalwi Midarijun Nabuwwa Vol 1 (& Many more)
Does the concept/belief of the 'celebration of Mawlid/Milad' exsist in the Views of any Previous Scholars?: Yes Evidence: Ibn Taymiyya Iqtidaa’ us-siraat-il-Mustaqe em, page 294, Ibn Kathir Seerat unNabi & Tareekh Islam vol 13, Ibn Hajar Asqalani Fath ul Bari book of Nikah, Imam Jalaluddin Sayuti Al Hawi Lil Fatawi, Shah Abdul haq Dehalwi Midarijun Nabuwwa Vol 1 (& Many more) Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:28pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Does the concept/belief of the 'celebration of Mawlid/Milad' exsist in the Quran? YES: Evidence: (10:58) (19:15) (14:5) and many more.
Does the concept/belief of the 'celebration of Mawlid/Milad' exsist in the Quran? YES: Evidence: (10:58) (19:15) (14:5) and many more. Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:28pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Does the concept/belief of the 'celebration of Mawlid/Milad' exsist in the Hadeeth?: Yes Evidence: Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428, Sahih Muslim Book of Sawm, Tirmidhi vol 1 Chapter of Milad of prophet peace be upon him
Does the concept/belief of the 'celebration of Mawlid/Milad' exsist in the Hadeeth?: Yes Evidence: Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428, Sahih Muslim Book of Sawm, Tirmidhi vol 1 Chapter of Milad of prophet peace be upon him Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:29pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah.
Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah. Abdul Qadir Qadiri

2:30pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...

There is plenty of evidence in support of Milad but we say if you wish celebrate FINE if you do not then FINE.

LIVE AND LET LIVE!!!
There is plenty of evidence in support of Milad but we say if you wish celebrate FINE if you do not then FINE. LIVE AND LET LIVE!!! Abdul Qadir Qadiri

5:29pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Just an observer says...

Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...far too much
Abdul Qadir Qadiri says...far too much Just an observer

5:53pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Faithless says...

Abdul Qadir Qadiri wrote:
Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah.
Where in the Quran is this proven?

I've travelled the whole Muslim world extensively (Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Tunisia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Algeria, Lebanon, Libya) and I have found this tradition only amongst the Barelvi's originating in India/Pakistan. There are absolutely no authentic narrations (Hadiths) where the celebration of the Prophet's (pbuh) birthday is ordained.

The Prophet (pbuh) didn't celebrate his birthday, neither did the Sahaba and neither did the two generations that followed.

It seems to me that the Christians borrowed a lot of Christmas from the Pagans and Jews. The Barelvi's are following their traditions from the Christians - Barelvi's put up lights/decorations/t
rees to celebrate this event. We have been warned in authentic Hadith (sayings of the Prophet pbuh) and the Quran against this.

Next question: now you have the trees, lights and tinsel for this event, how long before you get the fat guy from the mosque to dress up in a red suit and go around saying, "ho ho ho"?
[quote][p][bold]Abdul Qadir Qadiri[/bold] wrote: Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah.[/p][/quote]Where in the Quran is this proven? I've travelled the whole Muslim world extensively (Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Tunisia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Algeria, Lebanon, Libya) and I have found this tradition only amongst the Barelvi's originating in India/Pakistan. There are absolutely no authentic narrations (Hadiths) where the celebration of the Prophet's (pbuh) birthday is ordained. The Prophet (pbuh) didn't celebrate his birthday, neither did the Sahaba and neither did the two generations that followed. It seems to me that the Christians borrowed a lot of Christmas from the Pagans and Jews. The Barelvi's are following their traditions from the Christians - Barelvi's put up lights/decorations/t rees to celebrate this event. We have been warned in authentic Hadith (sayings of the Prophet pbuh) and the Quran against this. Next question: now you have the trees, lights and tinsel for this event, how long before you get the fat guy from the mosque to dress up in a red suit and go around saying, "ho ho ho"? Faithless

5:54pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Faithless says...

The prophet clearly stated that it is forbidden to blindly imitate non-Muslims. In one hadeeth, he over emphasized how blindly some Muslims will imitate no matter how hard it may be. The prophet (S.A.W.) said, "You will surely follow the ways, steps, or traditions of those who came before you, span by span and yard by yard (very closely) even if they entered into a lizard's hole you will enter it." The companions asked, "O prophet, you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else!?" In another hadeeth, he clearly prohibited imitation stating, "If one imitates another nation or people, he will be from them."
The prophet clearly stated that it is forbidden to blindly imitate non-Muslims. In one hadeeth, he over emphasized how blindly some Muslims will imitate no matter how hard it may be. The prophet (S.A.W.) said, "You will surely follow the ways, steps, or traditions of those who came before you, span by span and yard by yard (very closely) even if they entered into a lizard's hole you will enter it." The companions asked, "O prophet, you mean the Jews and Christians?" He replied, "Who else!?" [Reported by Imaam Bukhaari] In another hadeeth, he clearly prohibited imitation stating, "If one imitates another nation or people, he will be from them." [Reported by Imaam Abu-Daawud] Faithless

6:01pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Faithless says...

Abdul Qadir Qadiri wrote:
Did Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428
Do you mean this Hadith #5428 or another one, because it does not correlate to what you are saying:

A'isha reported that a Jew from among the Jews of Banu Zuraiq who was called Labid b. al-A'sam cast spell upon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) with the result that he (under the influence of the spell) felt that he had been doing something whereas in fact he had not been doing that. (This state of affairs lasted) until one day or during one night Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made supplication (to dispel its effects). He again made a supplication and he again did this and said to 'A'isha: Do you know that Allah has told me what I had asked Him? There came to me two men and one amongst them sat near my head and the other one near my feet and he who sat near my head said to one who sat near my feet or one who sat near my feet said to one who sat near my head: What is the trouble with the man? He said: The spell has affected him. He said: Who has cast that? He (the other one) said: It was Labid b. A'sam (who has done it). He said: What is the thing by which he transmitted its effect? He said: By the comb and by the hair stuck to the comb and the spathe of the date-palm. He said: Where is tbap He replied: In the well of Dhi Arwan. She said: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent some of the persons from among his Companions there and then said: 'A'isha. by Allah, its water was yellow like henna and its trees were like heads of the devils. She said that she asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as to why he did not burn that. He said: No, Allah has cured me and I do not like that I should induce people to commit any high-handedness in regard (to one another), but I only commanded that it should be buried.
[quote][p][bold]Abdul Qadir Qadiri[/bold] wrote: Did Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428[/p][/quote]Do you mean this Hadith #5428 or another one, because it does not correlate to what you are saying: A'isha reported that a Jew from among the Jews of Banu Zuraiq who was called Labid b. al-A'sam cast spell upon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) with the result that he (under the influence of the spell) felt that he had been doing something whereas in fact he had not been doing that. (This state of affairs lasted) until one day or during one night Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made supplication (to dispel its effects). He again made a supplication and he again did this and said to 'A'isha: Do you know that Allah has told me what I had asked Him? There came to me two men and one amongst them sat near my head and the other one near my feet and he who sat near my head said to one who sat near my feet or one who sat near my feet said to one who sat near my head: What is the trouble with the man? He said: The spell has affected him. He said: Who has cast that? He (the other one) said: It was Labid b. A'sam (who has done it). He said: What is the thing by which he transmitted its effect? He said: By the comb and by the hair stuck to the comb and the spathe of the date-palm. He said: Where is tbap He replied: In the well of Dhi Arwan. She said: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent some of the persons from among his Companions there and then said: 'A'isha. by Allah, its water was yellow like henna and its trees were like heads of the devils. She said that she asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as to why he did not burn that. He said: No, Allah has cured me and I do not like that I should induce people to commit any high-handedness in regard (to one another), but I only commanded that it should be buried. Faithless

6:07pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Faithless says...

Active Citizen wrote:
passingfootball wrote:
Active Citizen wrote:
Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia.

The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?)

Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it.

The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!!
@ Active Shitizen
What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to.

the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .
You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month???

Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant!

So let's turn the table here:
Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO
Surely they knew about the need for Dawah?

All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers.

If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat???

Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!!

The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing.
The Prophet sent out Sahabas as far as China inviting people into the fold of Islam - so yes the Prophet did invent Tablighi Jamaat.

Celebrating the Milad is imitating Christmas. Many friends who celebrate it now, speaking to their parents they says they did not celebrate it as children. The tinsel, lights and trees shows how much you are imitating Christianity.

I agree the Prophets are alive in their graves which is why you go to the Prophets grave to ask for intercession and to give salaam. The Prophet is not omnipotent, only God is omnipotent.
[quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]passingfootball[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia. The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?) Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it. The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!![/p][/quote]@ Active Shitizen What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to. the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .[/p][/quote]You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month??? Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant! So let's turn the table here: Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO Surely they knew about the need for Dawah? All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers. If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat??? Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!! The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing.[/p][/quote]The Prophet sent out Sahabas as far as China inviting people into the fold of Islam - so yes the Prophet did invent Tablighi Jamaat. Celebrating the Milad is imitating Christmas. Many friends who celebrate it now, speaking to their parents they says they did not celebrate it as children. The tinsel, lights and trees shows how much you are imitating Christianity. I agree the Prophets are alive in their graves which is why you go to the Prophets grave to ask for intercession and to give salaam. The Prophet is not omnipotent, only God is omnipotent. Faithless

7:14pm Wed 15 Jan 14

StopDeludingYourself says...

Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????
Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor??????? StopDeludingYourself

9:23pm Wed 15 Jan 14

M Foster says...

Jim_Wise wrote:
Africa for the Africans, Asia for the Asians, White countries for everyone?

Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY White country and ONLY into White countries.

The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third-worlders and "assimilating" with them.

Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY White country and ONLY White countries to "assimilate" with all those non-Whites.

What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-Blacks were brought into EVERY Black country and ONLY into Black countries?
How long would it take anyone to realize I'm not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?
And how long would it take any sane Black man to notice this and what kind of psycho Black man wouldn't object to this?

But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the White race, liberals and respectable conservatives will agree that I am a naziwhowantstocloneh

itler.

They say they are “anti-racist”.
What they are is anti-White.
Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-White.
Absolutely spot on. What we are talking about here is genocide being carried out against the (predominantly) White British race. Not by violence (yet, although some would class recent events in Rochdale, Peterborough, etc., as racial/religious violence, spoils of war, the actions of a conquering army) but by displacement via mass immigration and exponentially high birthrates. Many see this country as being lost, without a single bullet being fired. Our thieving, spinless, traitors in Parliament who have caused this situation may hopefully one day face the wrath of the sleeping lion, our people. God willing.
[quote][p][bold]Jim_Wise[/bold] wrote: Africa for the Africans, Asia for the Asians, White countries for everyone? Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY White country and ONLY into White countries. The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third-worlders and "assimilating" with them. Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY White country and ONLY White countries to "assimilate" with all those non-Whites. What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-Blacks were brought into EVERY Black country and ONLY into Black countries? How long would it take anyone to realize I'm not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem? And how long would it take any sane Black man to notice this and what kind of psycho Black man wouldn't object to this? But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the White race, liberals and respectable conservatives will agree that I am a naziwhowantstocloneh itler. They say they are “anti-racist”. What they are is anti-White. Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-White.[/p][/quote]Absolutely spot on. What we are talking about here is genocide being carried out against the (predominantly) White British race. Not by violence (yet, although some would class recent events in Rochdale, Peterborough, etc., as racial/religious violence, spoils of war, the actions of a conquering army) but by displacement via mass immigration and exponentially high birthrates. Many see this country as being lost, without a single bullet being fired. Our thieving, spinless, traitors in Parliament who have caused this situation may hopefully one day face the wrath of the sleeping lion, our people. God willing. M Foster

12:18pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Active Citizen says...

Faithless wrote:
Active Citizen wrote:
passingfootball wrote:
Active Citizen wrote:
Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia.

The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?)

Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it.

The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!!
@ Active Shitizen
What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to.

the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .
You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month???

Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant!

So let's turn the table here:
Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO
Surely they knew about the need for Dawah?

All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers.

If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat???

Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!!

The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing.
The Prophet sent out Sahabas as far as China inviting people into the fold of Islam - so yes the Prophet did invent Tablighi Jamaat.

Celebrating the Milad is imitating Christmas. Many friends who celebrate it now, speaking to their parents they says they did not celebrate it as children. The tinsel, lights and trees shows how much you are imitating Christianity.

I agree the Prophets are alive in their graves which is why you go to the Prophets grave to ask for intercession and to give salaam. The Prophet is not omnipotent, only God is omnipotent.
I think you are either deluded or simply lying.

The prophet and sahaba did tabligh and dawah - no doubt! BUT they did NOT invent the tablighi jamaat. this organisation along with all of its innovated rituals, books etc was created a guy called ilyas from Saharanpur, India in 1920s!

It was created to imitate they style of Christian missionary groups!

Many people who are in the tablighi jamaat speaking to their parents and grandparents thay say were not members!!!

Milad is the remembrance of the of the prophets's birth, please read the book on Mawlid written by Jalaludin Suyti (RA) he was from the 9th century and was not from the sub continent.

This is just an example of one scholar who is from the early era of Islam and not from the sub-continent who has commended the celebration of MIlad!!!
[quote][p][bold]Faithless[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]passingfootball[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia. The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?) Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it. The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!![/p][/quote]@ Active Shitizen What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to. the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .[/p][/quote]You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month??? Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant! So let's turn the table here: Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO Surely they knew about the need for Dawah? All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers. If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat??? Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!! The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing.[/p][/quote]The Prophet sent out Sahabas as far as China inviting people into the fold of Islam - so yes the Prophet did invent Tablighi Jamaat. Celebrating the Milad is imitating Christmas. Many friends who celebrate it now, speaking to their parents they says they did not celebrate it as children. The tinsel, lights and trees shows how much you are imitating Christianity. I agree the Prophets are alive in their graves which is why you go to the Prophets grave to ask for intercession and to give salaam. The Prophet is not omnipotent, only God is omnipotent.[/p][/quote]I think you are either deluded or simply lying. The prophet and sahaba did tabligh and dawah - no doubt! BUT they did NOT invent the tablighi jamaat. this organisation along with all of its innovated rituals, books etc was created a guy called ilyas from Saharanpur, India in 1920s! It was created to imitate they style of Christian missionary groups! Many people who are in the tablighi jamaat speaking to their parents and grandparents thay say were not members!!! Milad is the remembrance of the of the prophets's birth, please read the book on Mawlid written by Jalaludin Suyti (RA) he was from the 9th century and was not from the sub continent. This is just an example of one scholar who is from the early era of Islam and not from the sub-continent who has commended the celebration of MIlad!!! Active Citizen

12:22pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Active Citizen says...

StopDeludingYourself wrote:
Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????
OK so how is it to waste money on domes and towers on your mosques all over Blackburn, where is the evidence for this?

Mosques have been rebuilt just to look good, spending millions of pounds!!!

Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????
[quote][p][bold]StopDeludingYourself[/bold] wrote: Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????[/p][/quote]OK so how is it to waste money on domes and towers on your mosques all over Blackburn, where is the evidence for this? Mosques have been rebuilt just to look good, spending millions of pounds!!! Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor??????? Active Citizen

12:49pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Active Citizen says...

Faithless wrote:
Abdul Qadir Qadiri wrote:
Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah.
Where in the Quran is this proven?

I've travelled the whole Muslim world extensively (Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Tunisia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Algeria, Lebanon, Libya) and I have found this tradition only amongst the Barelvi's originating in India/Pakistan. There are absolutely no authentic narrations (Hadiths) where the celebration of the Prophet's (pbuh) birthday is ordained.

The Prophet (pbuh) didn't celebrate his birthday, neither did the Sahaba and neither did the two generations that followed.

It seems to me that the Christians borrowed a lot of Christmas from the Pagans and Jews. The Barelvi's are following their traditions from the Christians - Barelvi's put up lights/decorations/t

rees to celebrate this event. We have been warned in authentic Hadith (sayings of the Prophet pbuh) and the Quran against this.

Next question: now you have the trees, lights and tinsel for this event, how long before you get the fat guy from the mosque to dress up in a red suit and go around saying, "ho ho ho"?
Every Muslim country has Milad / Mawlid as a declared holiday except for Saudi - so plz check your facts.

You say the prophet did not celebrate his birthday??? please see hadith below:

The Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) used to fast on Monday and he reasoned it by saying: "That is the day on which I was BORN and the day on which I received revelations."

Those who celebrate it do so because they feel it is a good permissible thing to do - but they do not insist on people taking part. So if you don't want to then don't, but please don't force your views on others.

If you want to read more then please see:
Imam Tirmidhi, in his book even gives the title of one of this chapters, the name “Milaad-un-Nabee
. (Tirmidhi, shamaa’il)

Imam Waaqdi (A second century Scholar) also wrote a book entitled “Milaad-un-Nabi”
. The original copy can be found in Cairo.

Allama Ibn Al-Jawzi, wrote a book called “Milaad-un-Nabi” in which he gives very strong proofs permitting the celebration of Milaad.
[quote][p][bold]Faithless[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abdul Qadir Qadiri[/bold] wrote: Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah.[/p][/quote]Where in the Quran is this proven? I've travelled the whole Muslim world extensively (Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Tunisia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Algeria, Lebanon, Libya) and I have found this tradition only amongst the Barelvi's originating in India/Pakistan. There are absolutely no authentic narrations (Hadiths) where the celebration of the Prophet's (pbuh) birthday is ordained. The Prophet (pbuh) didn't celebrate his birthday, neither did the Sahaba and neither did the two generations that followed. It seems to me that the Christians borrowed a lot of Christmas from the Pagans and Jews. The Barelvi's are following their traditions from the Christians - Barelvi's put up lights/decorations/t rees to celebrate this event. We have been warned in authentic Hadith (sayings of the Prophet pbuh) and the Quran against this. Next question: now you have the trees, lights and tinsel for this event, how long before you get the fat guy from the mosque to dress up in a red suit and go around saying, "ho ho ho"?[/p][/quote]Every Muslim country has Milad / Mawlid as a declared holiday except for Saudi - so plz check your facts. You say the prophet did not celebrate his birthday??? please see hadith below: The Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) used to fast on Monday and he reasoned it by saying: "That is the day on which I was BORN and the day on which I received revelations." [Muslim] Those who celebrate it do so because they feel it is a good permissible thing to do - but they do not insist on people taking part. So if you don't want to then don't, but please don't force your views on others. If you want to read more then please see: Imam Tirmidhi, in his book even gives the title of one of this chapters, the name “Milaad-un-Nabee . (Tirmidhi, shamaa’il) Imam Waaqdi (A second century Scholar) also wrote a book entitled “Milaad-un-Nabi” . The original copy can be found in Cairo. Allama Ibn Al-Jawzi, wrote a book called “Milaad-un-Nabi” in which he gives very strong proofs permitting the celebration of Milaad. Active Citizen

12:50pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Active Citizen says...

Faithless wrote:
Abdul Qadir Qadiri wrote:
Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah.
Where in the Quran is this proven?

I've travelled the whole Muslim world extensively (Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Tunisia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Algeria, Lebanon, Libya) and I have found this tradition only amongst the Barelvi's originating in India/Pakistan. There are absolutely no authentic narrations (Hadiths) where the celebration of the Prophet's (pbuh) birthday is ordained.

The Prophet (pbuh) didn't celebrate his birthday, neither did the Sahaba and neither did the two generations that followed.

It seems to me that the Christians borrowed a lot of Christmas from the Pagans and Jews. The Barelvi's are following their traditions from the Christians - Barelvi's put up lights/decorations/t

rees to celebrate this event. We have been warned in authentic Hadith (sayings of the Prophet pbuh) and the Quran against this.

Next question: now you have the trees, lights and tinsel for this event, how long before you get the fat guy from the mosque to dress up in a red suit and go around saying, "ho ho ho"?
Lights!!! - what's the big issue about lights, I know they didn't have electric lights the centuries ago, so yes technically they are a bidah (innovation) but do you not have lights at home or in your mosques? The new Bicknell mosque has lights just to light up the towers?

Decoration - Your mosques are decorated with massive domes, expensive fixtures and fittings and towers - this is totally not proven from the sunnah? are you copying Christian cathedral?

About the fat guy from the mosque I think Hamid Patel (Tahuheedul) is the best guy for that role - he will do anything to integrate - especially if Jack or Kate asks him to ;)
[quote][p][bold]Faithless[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abdul Qadir Qadiri[/bold] wrote: Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah.[/p][/quote]Where in the Quran is this proven? I've travelled the whole Muslim world extensively (Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Tunisia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Algeria, Lebanon, Libya) and I have found this tradition only amongst the Barelvi's originating in India/Pakistan. There are absolutely no authentic narrations (Hadiths) where the celebration of the Prophet's (pbuh) birthday is ordained. The Prophet (pbuh) didn't celebrate his birthday, neither did the Sahaba and neither did the two generations that followed. It seems to me that the Christians borrowed a lot of Christmas from the Pagans and Jews. The Barelvi's are following their traditions from the Christians - Barelvi's put up lights/decorations/t rees to celebrate this event. We have been warned in authentic Hadith (sayings of the Prophet pbuh) and the Quran against this. Next question: now you have the trees, lights and tinsel for this event, how long before you get the fat guy from the mosque to dress up in a red suit and go around saying, "ho ho ho"?[/p][/quote]Lights!!! - what's the big issue about lights, I know they didn't have electric lights the centuries ago, so yes technically they are a bidah (innovation) but do you not have lights at home or in your mosques? The new Bicknell mosque has lights just to light up the towers? Decoration - Your mosques are decorated with massive domes, expensive fixtures and fittings and towers - this is totally not proven from the sunnah? are you copying Christian cathedral? About the fat guy from the mosque I think Hamid Patel (Tahuheedul) is the best guy for that role - he will do anything to integrate - especially if Jack or Kate asks him to ;) Active Citizen

2:30pm Thu 16 Jan 14

TattyAnn says...

I've been fascinated by the religious debate sparked by this march.

One of the most interesting things is the debate against 'innovation' and the evidence presented from the scholars that this is a bad thing. Can I suggest that 'scholars' who spend their lives reading and 'interpreting' religious texts might actually be 'innovating' ever so slightly themselves. As human beings, fallible and subject to the social and political mores of the context in which they are studying, might it not be possible that the scholars are innovating and producing interpretations that fit the time? I'm personally glad that we are not still stoning people publicly for blasphemy (as some scriptures require) - aren't you?

Secondly, what exactly is wrong with 'innovation'? Human beings have succeeded as a species simply by their ability to innovate and adapt to their environment. Thanks to innovation, we have easy access to food, shelter, clothing and medicine - these were not handed to us by the scriptures but discovered and refined through observing, testing, learning and assimilating information from others. I would argue that the people arguing most strongly against 'innovation' are using some of them on a daily basis; you will drive, use zips, telephones, aeroplanes, electricity, x-rays and antibiotics. None of these were mentioned in the scriptures so does this mean they are wrong? Or is it possible that some 'innovations' are perfectly acceptable when it suits? Human beings have always taken on ideas from others and adapted them to fit - religious belief is a prime example of this!

Finally, why do people feel the need to use the interpretation of scriptures to control other people's behaviour? Marches, lights, festivals for the birth of key people - do these things really threaten your religious belief? If this is the case, then your belief cannot be as strong as you think. There is long history of religious fundamentalism destroying itself (Spanish Inquisition anyone?) simply because human beings cannot live to the sometimes impossible standards imposed by having to live to The Word (or other people's interpretation of it). Life is often hard enough and faith surely should be support and comfort, not another stick to beat people with. If people are not actively hurting you, then surely you should leave it to your or their God to judge whether they have been a good enough Christian/Muslim/Jew
/Buddhist?

My final, final comment (which may get this post taken down) religion is like a penis; I'm glad you have one, I'm happy that you are proud of it but I would really prefer it if you didn't wave it around so much in public!
I've been fascinated by the religious debate sparked by this march. One of the most interesting things is the debate against 'innovation' and the evidence presented from the scholars that this is a bad thing. Can I suggest that 'scholars' who spend their lives reading and 'interpreting' religious texts might actually be 'innovating' ever so slightly themselves. As human beings, fallible and subject to the social and political mores of the context in which they are studying, might it not be possible that the scholars are innovating and producing interpretations that fit the time? I'm personally glad that we are not still stoning people publicly for blasphemy (as some scriptures require) - aren't you? Secondly, what exactly is wrong with 'innovation'? Human beings have succeeded as a species simply by their ability to innovate and adapt to their environment. Thanks to innovation, we have easy access to food, shelter, clothing and medicine - these were not handed to us by the scriptures but discovered and refined through observing, testing, learning and assimilating information from others. I would argue that the people arguing most strongly against 'innovation' are using some of them on a daily basis; you will drive, use zips, telephones, aeroplanes, electricity, x-rays and antibiotics. None of these were mentioned in the scriptures so does this mean they are wrong? Or is it possible that some 'innovations' are perfectly acceptable when it suits? Human beings have always taken on ideas from others and adapted them to fit - religious belief is a prime example of this! Finally, why do people feel the need to use the interpretation of scriptures to control other people's behaviour? Marches, lights, festivals for the birth of key people - do these things really threaten your religious belief? If this is the case, then your belief cannot be as strong as you think. There is long history of religious fundamentalism destroying itself (Spanish Inquisition anyone?) simply because human beings cannot live to the sometimes impossible standards imposed by having to live to The Word (or other people's interpretation of it). Life is often hard enough and faith surely should be support and comfort, not another stick to beat people with. If people are not actively hurting you, then surely you should leave it to your or their God to judge whether they have been a good enough Christian/Muslim/Jew /Buddhist? My final, final comment (which may get this post taken down) religion is like a penis; I'm glad you have one, I'm happy that you are proud of it but I would really prefer it if you didn't wave it around so much in public! TattyAnn

5:31pm Thu 16 Jan 14

StopDeludingYourself says...

Active Citizen wrote:
StopDeludingYourself wrote:
Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????
OK so how is it to waste money on domes and towers on your mosques all over Blackburn, where is the evidence for this?

Mosques have been rebuilt just to look good, spending millions of pounds!!!

Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????
I agree that is also a waste of money, just like the new mosque in Brierfield, there is simply no need to waste money on grand mosques in the UK.
[quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]StopDeludingYourself[/bold] wrote: Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????[/p][/quote]OK so how is it to waste money on domes and towers on your mosques all over Blackburn, where is the evidence for this? Mosques have been rebuilt just to look good, spending millions of pounds!!! Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????[/p][/quote]I agree that is also a waste of money, just like the new mosque in Brierfield, there is simply no need to waste money on grand mosques in the UK. StopDeludingYourself

9:52pm Thu 16 Jan 14

M Foster says...

TattyAnn wrote:
I've been fascinated by the religious debate sparked by this march.

One of the most interesting things is the debate against 'innovation' and the evidence presented from the scholars that this is a bad thing. Can I suggest that 'scholars' who spend their lives reading and 'interpreting' religious texts might actually be 'innovating' ever so slightly themselves. As human beings, fallible and subject to the social and political mores of the context in which they are studying, might it not be possible that the scholars are innovating and producing interpretations that fit the time? I'm personally glad that we are not still stoning people publicly for blasphemy (as some scriptures require) - aren't you?

Secondly, what exactly is wrong with 'innovation'? Human beings have succeeded as a species simply by their ability to innovate and adapt to their environment. Thanks to innovation, we have easy access to food, shelter, clothing and medicine - these were not handed to us by the scriptures but discovered and refined through observing, testing, learning and assimilating information from others. I would argue that the people arguing most strongly against 'innovation' are using some of them on a daily basis; you will drive, use zips, telephones, aeroplanes, electricity, x-rays and antibiotics. None of these were mentioned in the scriptures so does this mean they are wrong? Or is it possible that some 'innovations' are perfectly acceptable when it suits? Human beings have always taken on ideas from others and adapted them to fit - religious belief is a prime example of this!

Finally, why do people feel the need to use the interpretation of scriptures to control other people's behaviour? Marches, lights, festivals for the birth of key people - do these things really threaten your religious belief? If this is the case, then your belief cannot be as strong as you think. There is long history of religious fundamentalism destroying itself (Spanish Inquisition anyone?) simply because human beings cannot live to the sometimes impossible standards imposed by having to live to The Word (or other people's interpretation of it). Life is often hard enough and faith surely should be support and comfort, not another stick to beat people with. If people are not actively hurting you, then surely you should leave it to your or their God to judge whether they have been a good enough Christian/Muslim/Jew

/Buddhist?

My final, final comment (which may get this post taken down) religion is like a penis; I'm glad you have one, I'm happy that you are proud of it but I would really prefer it if you didn't wave it around so much in public!
TattyAnn, It is interesting you mention inventions such as - zips, telephones, aeroplanes, electricity, x-rays and antibiotics. You can add to that MANY other things like the internal combustion engine, the television, the steam engine, the hovercraft, the internet (without which this discussion would never happen), the helicopter, the space rocket, nuclear power, etc, etc, etc.

Yes it is a wondrous that, as you state, human beings have invented all these things to take us out of the dark ages. But what is significant about all these things? They were invented/discovered by just one section of humanity - the White European race. The rest of the world, of all races and religions, have massively benefited from them. Yet that species of humanity is under threat of extinction. In 20 years, even the indigenous White British alone will be a minority in their own country as things stand.

They are being driven out (replaced) and overwhelmed, their religion and culture being eradicated by sheer numbers. It is called GENOCIDE. This is the grand plan of the worlds' Zionists. I do not care which country is the historical or present birthplace of the very many ethnic groups now living in the UK. I would maintain they would, and perhaps did, feel exactly the same if that country was overwhelmed/invaded by others, such that it lost virtually all it's people, identity and heritage.

That is where the UK is heading thanks to it's traitorous leaders over the past 40 or so years. I would never blame these people for seeking a better life here, I would do the same, but we now face disaster just as, for example, Yugoslavia did. They let in lots of the Muslim faith who took over large areas (as is happening here) and look what happened. War. The UK, with main cities and certain areas so inhabited, is almost certain to become similarly `Balkanised'. The British way of life, along with all the benefits that recent immigrants were attracted here to in the first place, will be gone for ever. Look at Muslim factions in the Middle East and tribes in South Africa killing each other.

I am not even going to get onto the subject of the UK already being the most over-populated country in Europe and our ability to sustain ourselves in the coming centuries. Suffice to say, to me, this discussion is about much more that whether a religious march should be allowed in Nelson or not.
Btw, I am not sure I possess the pride you bestow me with but you make a good point.
[quote][p][bold]TattyAnn[/bold] wrote: I've been fascinated by the religious debate sparked by this march. One of the most interesting things is the debate against 'innovation' and the evidence presented from the scholars that this is a bad thing. Can I suggest that 'scholars' who spend their lives reading and 'interpreting' religious texts might actually be 'innovating' ever so slightly themselves. As human beings, fallible and subject to the social and political mores of the context in which they are studying, might it not be possible that the scholars are innovating and producing interpretations that fit the time? I'm personally glad that we are not still stoning people publicly for blasphemy (as some scriptures require) - aren't you? Secondly, what exactly is wrong with 'innovation'? Human beings have succeeded as a species simply by their ability to innovate and adapt to their environment. Thanks to innovation, we have easy access to food, shelter, clothing and medicine - these were not handed to us by the scriptures but discovered and refined through observing, testing, learning and assimilating information from others. I would argue that the people arguing most strongly against 'innovation' are using some of them on a daily basis; you will drive, use zips, telephones, aeroplanes, electricity, x-rays and antibiotics. None of these were mentioned in the scriptures so does this mean they are wrong? Or is it possible that some 'innovations' are perfectly acceptable when it suits? Human beings have always taken on ideas from others and adapted them to fit - religious belief is a prime example of this! Finally, why do people feel the need to use the interpretation of scriptures to control other people's behaviour? Marches, lights, festivals for the birth of key people - do these things really threaten your religious belief? If this is the case, then your belief cannot be as strong as you think. There is long history of religious fundamentalism destroying itself (Spanish Inquisition anyone?) simply because human beings cannot live to the sometimes impossible standards imposed by having to live to The Word (or other people's interpretation of it). Life is often hard enough and faith surely should be support and comfort, not another stick to beat people with. If people are not actively hurting you, then surely you should leave it to your or their God to judge whether they have been a good enough Christian/Muslim/Jew /Buddhist? My final, final comment (which may get this post taken down) religion is like a penis; I'm glad you have one, I'm happy that you are proud of it but I would really prefer it if you didn't wave it around so much in public![/p][/quote]TattyAnn, It is interesting you mention inventions such as - zips, telephones, aeroplanes, electricity, x-rays and antibiotics. You can add to that MANY other things like the internal combustion engine, the television, the steam engine, the hovercraft, the internet (without which this discussion would never happen), the helicopter, the space rocket, nuclear power, etc, etc, etc. Yes it is a wondrous that, as you state, human beings have invented all these things to take us out of the dark ages. But what is significant about all these things? They were invented/discovered by just one section of humanity - the White European race. The rest of the world, of all races and religions, have massively benefited from them. Yet that species of humanity is under threat of extinction. In 20 years, even the indigenous White British alone will be a minority in their own country as things stand. They are being driven out (replaced) and overwhelmed, their religion and culture being eradicated by sheer numbers. It is called GENOCIDE. This is the grand plan of the worlds' Zionists. I do not care which country is the historical or present birthplace of the very many ethnic groups now living in the UK. I would maintain they would, and perhaps did, feel exactly the same if that country was overwhelmed/invaded by others, such that it lost virtually all it's people, identity and heritage. That is where the UK is heading thanks to it's traitorous leaders over the past 40 or so years. I would never blame these people for seeking a better life here, I would do the same, but we now face disaster just as, for example, Yugoslavia did. They let in lots of the Muslim faith who took over large areas (as is happening here) and look what happened. War. The UK, with main cities and certain areas so inhabited, is almost certain to become similarly `Balkanised'. The British way of life, along with all the benefits that recent immigrants were attracted here to in the first place, will be gone for ever. Look at Muslim factions in the Middle East and tribes in South Africa killing each other. I am not even going to get onto the subject of the UK already being the most over-populated country in Europe and our ability to sustain ourselves in the coming centuries. Suffice to say, to me, this discussion is about much more that whether a religious march should be allowed in Nelson or not. Btw, I am not sure I possess the pride you bestow me with but you make a good point. M Foster

10:04am Fri 17 Jan 14

Active Citizen says...

StopDeludingYourself wrote:
Active Citizen wrote:
StopDeludingYourself wrote:
Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????
OK so how is it to waste money on domes and towers on your mosques all over Blackburn, where is the evidence for this?

Mosques have been rebuilt just to look good, spending millions of pounds!!!

Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????
I agree that is also a waste of money, just like the new mosque in Brierfield, there is simply no need to waste money on grand mosques in the UK.
I live in Blackburn some of the mosques that have spent silly money here are:
Tauheedul Bickneel Street,
Noorul Islam, Audley Range,
Jamea Audley Range.

And guess who came to the opening of Bicknell street mosque on the imams of makkah (who is like a pope for wahabi / salafis / deobandis ) - so I suppose he approves of this wastefulness or else why would he come?
[quote][p][bold]StopDeludingYourself[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]StopDeludingYourself[/bold] wrote: Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????[/p][/quote]OK so how is it to waste money on domes and towers on your mosques all over Blackburn, where is the evidence for this? Mosques have been rebuilt just to look good, spending millions of pounds!!! Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????[/p][/quote]I agree that is also a waste of money, just like the new mosque in Brierfield, there is simply no need to waste money on grand mosques in the UK.[/p][/quote]I live in Blackburn some of the mosques that have spent silly money here are: Tauheedul Bickneel Street, Noorul Islam, Audley Range, Jamea Audley Range. And guess who came to the opening of Bicknell street mosque on the imams of makkah (who is like a pope for wahabi / salafis / deobandis ) - so I suppose he approves of this wastefulness or else why would he come? Active Citizen

2:48pm Fri 17 Jan 14

TattyAnn says...

"Yes it is a wondrous that, as you state, human beings have invented all these things to take us out of the dark ages. But what is significant about all these things? They were invented/discovered by just one section of humanity - the White European race. The rest of the world, of all races and religions, have massively benefited from them. Yet that species of humanity is under threat of extinction. In 20 years, even the indigenous White British alone will be a minority in their own country as things stand. "

Oh dear, M Foster.

I feel really sad that you have taken the point I made and used it to support your jingoistic argument. I could give you a long list of inventions that did not originate with White Europeans and that list would be created through use of our alphabet, the origins of which come from North Africa, so let's thank a non-white for our ability to do this, shall we?

The British Isles have always adopted, utilised and, yes exploited, the best of what other cultures have had to offer. The 'British Way of Life' that you're alluding to is an historical amalgam of hundreds of ways of life - the food we eat, the festivals, the English language, have all been influenced and improved by the cultures and people who have moved here or who have been colonised by the British. As part of your British Way of Life, you'll drink tea or coffee (India, S.America, Kenya), celebrate Christmas (Mid-East via the Romans), admire the English Rose (China and Middle East). I'll not go on...

I do think it is difficult to be precious about the 'indigenous, white British' as these have been minority since long before the Romans colonised these islands and unless your entire family have red hair and freckles, you would be hard pressed to trace your genetic line back to the level of purity that would give you any real right to argue from this standpoint.

The best innovation I hope for is that humanity will evolve its way of categorising and separating people by skin colour, age, gender, sexuality and find different ways of valuing the amazing things that human beings can do. My original point was about religious belief separating people and controlling/preventi
ng real innovation that might actually move us away from conflict by highlighting the ways we are similar. Marches don't hurt me and I like that we all use light to celebrate festivals - I certainly don't need a bloke writing in the 12th Century being subjectively interpreted today by another bloke, to tell me I'm sinning. I'll make that judgement myself as a rational, intelligent human.

As for your argument about Balkanisation of the UK, I know that you will dismiss this as naive however, I sincerely believe that all human beings prefer comfort and peace over conflict. We can all cite a minority, however my point about religious fundamentalism destroying itself is a prime case - humans don't want hardship which is why people choose to live here rather than countries with hardline fundamentalist regimes. Please don't let this country become the place that no-one goes to because of its hardline fundamentalist White Supremacist undercurrent. We've had more than enough of those - my Irish grandfather fought with his Indian colleagues to get rid of one of those.

With assimilation comes understanding and respect - give it a go.
"Yes it is a wondrous that, as you state, human beings have invented all these things to take us out of the dark ages. But what is significant about all these things? They were invented/discovered by just one section of humanity - the White European race. The rest of the world, of all races and religions, have massively benefited from them. Yet that species of humanity is under threat of extinction. In 20 years, even the indigenous White British alone will be a minority in their own country as things stand. " Oh dear, M Foster. I feel really sad that you have taken the point I made and used it to support your jingoistic argument. I could give you a long list of inventions that did not originate with White Europeans and that list would be created through use of our alphabet, the origins of which come from North Africa, so let's thank a non-white for our ability to do this, shall we? The British Isles have always adopted, utilised and, yes exploited, the best of what other cultures have had to offer. The 'British Way of Life' that you're alluding to is an historical amalgam of hundreds of ways of life - the food we eat, the festivals, the English language, have all been influenced and improved by the cultures and people who have moved here or who have been colonised by the British. As part of your British Way of Life, you'll drink tea or coffee (India, S.America, Kenya), celebrate Christmas (Mid-East via the Romans), admire the English Rose (China and Middle East). I'll not go on... I do think it is difficult to be precious about the 'indigenous, white British' as these have been minority since long before the Romans colonised these islands and unless your entire family have red hair and freckles, you would be hard pressed to trace your genetic line back to the level of purity that would give you any real right to argue from this standpoint. The best innovation I hope for is that humanity will evolve its way of categorising and separating people by skin colour, age, gender, sexuality and find different ways of valuing the amazing things that human beings can do. My original point was about religious belief separating people and controlling/preventi ng real innovation that might actually move us away from conflict by highlighting the ways we are similar. Marches don't hurt me and I like that we all use light to celebrate festivals - I certainly don't need a bloke writing in the 12th Century being subjectively interpreted today by another bloke, to tell me I'm sinning. I'll make that judgement myself as a rational, intelligent human. As for your argument about Balkanisation of the UK, I know that you will dismiss this as naive however, I sincerely believe that all human beings prefer comfort and peace over conflict. We can all cite a minority, however my point about religious fundamentalism destroying itself is a prime case - humans don't want hardship which is why people choose to live here rather than countries with hardline fundamentalist regimes. Please don't let this country become the place that no-one goes to because of its hardline fundamentalist White Supremacist undercurrent. We've had more than enough of those - my Irish grandfather fought with his Indian colleagues to get rid of one of those. With assimilation comes understanding and respect - give it a go. TattyAnn

9:08pm Fri 17 Jan 14

sandy beach says...

Biscay wrote:
Where are all the Asian women - are they not allowed to march and celebrate the Prophets birthday?
The women are busy cooking and serving all the men the food for the march. They are ferrying the old and disabled men around in the cars. They are looking after all the children that they are blessed with, thus they aren't really up for 'man's work'.
[quote][p][bold]Biscay[/bold] wrote: Where are all the Asian women - are they not allowed to march and celebrate the Prophets birthday?[/p][/quote]The women are busy cooking and serving all the men the food for the march. They are ferrying the old and disabled men around in the cars. They are looking after all the children that they are blessed with, thus they aren't really up for 'man's work'. sandy beach

12:06am Sat 18 Jan 14

Lifethroughatintedlense says...

Nuke em all........parasites
!
Nuke em all........parasites ! Lifethroughatintedlense

12:13pm Sat 18 Jan 14

welshmen says...

TattyAnn wrote:
"Yes it is a wondrous that, as you state, human beings have invented all these things to take us out of the dark ages. But what is significant about all these things? They were invented/discovered by just one section of humanity - the White European race. The rest of the world, of all races and religions, have massively benefited from them. Yet that species of humanity is under threat of extinction. In 20 years, even the indigenous White British alone will be a minority in their own country as things stand. "

Oh dear, M Foster.

I feel really sad that you have taken the point I made and used it to support your jingoistic argument. I could give you a long list of inventions that did not originate with White Europeans and that list would be created through use of our alphabet, the origins of which come from North Africa, so let's thank a non-white for our ability to do this, shall we?

The British Isles have always adopted, utilised and, yes exploited, the best of what other cultures have had to offer. The 'British Way of Life' that you're alluding to is an historical amalgam of hundreds of ways of life - the food we eat, the festivals, the English language, have all been influenced and improved by the cultures and people who have moved here or who have been colonised by the British. As part of your British Way of Life, you'll drink tea or coffee (India, S.America, Kenya), celebrate Christmas (Mid-East via the Romans), admire the English Rose (China and Middle East). I'll not go on...

I do think it is difficult to be precious about the 'indigenous, white British' as these have been minority since long before the Romans colonised these islands and unless your entire family have red hair and freckles, you would be hard pressed to trace your genetic line back to the level of purity that would give you any real right to argue from this standpoint.

The best innovation I hope for is that humanity will evolve its way of categorising and separating people by skin colour, age, gender, sexuality and find different ways of valuing the amazing things that human beings can do. My original point was about religious belief separating people and controlling/preventi

ng real innovation that might actually move us away from conflict by highlighting the ways we are similar. Marches don't hurt me and I like that we all use light to celebrate festivals - I certainly don't need a bloke writing in the 12th Century being subjectively interpreted today by another bloke, to tell me I'm sinning. I'll make that judgement myself as a rational, intelligent human.

As for your argument about Balkanisation of the UK, I know that you will dismiss this as naive however, I sincerely believe that all human beings prefer comfort and peace over conflict. We can all cite a minority, however my point about religious fundamentalism destroying itself is a prime case - humans don't want hardship which is why people choose to live here rather than countries with hardline fundamentalist regimes. Please don't let this country become the place that no-one goes to because of its hardline fundamentalist White Supremacist undercurrent. We've had more than enough of those - my Irish grandfather fought with his Indian colleagues to get rid of one of those.

With assimilation comes understanding and respect - give it a go.
TattyAnn says... "I could give you a long list of inventions that did not originate with White Europeans",

I say:
go on then, while your trying to find your list, check how many Nobel prizes have your (loving people have),? also how many marry into our Culture? by that I mean not having to change Religions to do so?, Tell me who do they Kill on a large scale? their own, Sunni, Shia, they do this killing most days, you seem to want anyone from anywhere to populate our Country, you and people like you, have inflicted Islamic immigration on us, buy reading your post you are deluded, deluded into thinking the Muslims will join with us for the beautiful life we are going to enjoy together, can you name me one place on our planet where this happens, Muslims & other faiths live in peace?.

We don't want the UK turning into an Islamic State, Millions of British people hate the idea that this can happen, it will happen unless we the people will refuse to except the spread of Islam, you may be a Muslim or married to one and changing your faith to do so, when the Muslim is the majority they will as history proves take that Country, AS their Holy Book instructs them to do.

And your point "my Irish grandfather fought with his Indian colleagues to get rid of one of those" I agree with that, I also don't want the likes of you encouraging a similar fate bestowed on us, Islam is the forth Reich ignore it at your peril but we wont....they will even reject you for all your support you seem to endow on Muslim Immigrants, you seem to be an intelligent person, use your common sense and read their Holy Book, you can find it on Google.... anyway that do for now....
[quote][p][bold]TattyAnn[/bold] wrote: "Yes it is a wondrous that, as you state, human beings have invented all these things to take us out of the dark ages. But what is significant about all these things? They were invented/discovered by just one section of humanity - the White European race. The rest of the world, of all races and religions, have massively benefited from them. Yet that species of humanity is under threat of extinction. In 20 years, even the indigenous White British alone will be a minority in their own country as things stand. " Oh dear, M Foster. I feel really sad that you have taken the point I made and used it to support your jingoistic argument. I could give you a long list of inventions that did not originate with White Europeans and that list would be created through use of our alphabet, the origins of which come from North Africa, so let's thank a non-white for our ability to do this, shall we? The British Isles have always adopted, utilised and, yes exploited, the best of what other cultures have had to offer. The 'British Way of Life' that you're alluding to is an historical amalgam of hundreds of ways of life - the food we eat, the festivals, the English language, have all been influenced and improved by the cultures and people who have moved here or who have been colonised by the British. As part of your British Way of Life, you'll drink tea or coffee (India, S.America, Kenya), celebrate Christmas (Mid-East via the Romans), admire the English Rose (China and Middle East). I'll not go on... I do think it is difficult to be precious about the 'indigenous, white British' as these have been minority since long before the Romans colonised these islands and unless your entire family have red hair and freckles, you would be hard pressed to trace your genetic line back to the level of purity that would give you any real right to argue from this standpoint. The best innovation I hope for is that humanity will evolve its way of categorising and separating people by skin colour, age, gender, sexuality and find different ways of valuing the amazing things that human beings can do. My original point was about religious belief separating people and controlling/preventi ng real innovation that might actually move us away from conflict by highlighting the ways we are similar. Marches don't hurt me and I like that we all use light to celebrate festivals - I certainly don't need a bloke writing in the 12th Century being subjectively interpreted today by another bloke, to tell me I'm sinning. I'll make that judgement myself as a rational, intelligent human. As for your argument about Balkanisation of the UK, I know that you will dismiss this as naive however, I sincerely believe that all human beings prefer comfort and peace over conflict. We can all cite a minority, however my point about religious fundamentalism destroying itself is a prime case - humans don't want hardship which is why people choose to live here rather than countries with hardline fundamentalist regimes. Please don't let this country become the place that no-one goes to because of its hardline fundamentalist White Supremacist undercurrent. We've had more than enough of those - my Irish grandfather fought with his Indian colleagues to get rid of one of those. With assimilation comes understanding and respect - give it a go.[/p][/quote]TattyAnn says... "I could give you a long list of inventions that did not originate with White Europeans", I say: go on then, while your trying to find your list, check how many Nobel prizes have your (loving people have),? also how many marry into our Culture? by that I mean not having to change Religions to do so?, Tell me who do they Kill on a large scale? their own, Sunni, Shia, they do this killing most days, you seem to want anyone from anywhere to populate our Country, you and people like you, have inflicted Islamic immigration on us, buy reading your post you are deluded, deluded into thinking the Muslims will join with us for the beautiful life we are going to enjoy together, can you name me one place on our planet where this happens, Muslims & other faiths live in peace?. We don't want the UK turning into an Islamic State, Millions of British people hate the idea that this can happen, it will happen unless we the people will refuse to except the spread of Islam, you may be a Muslim or married to one and changing your faith to do so, when the Muslim is the majority they will as history proves take that Country, AS their Holy Book instructs them to do. And your point "my Irish grandfather fought with his Indian colleagues to get rid of one of those" I agree with that, I also don't want the likes of you encouraging a similar fate bestowed on us, Islam is the forth Reich ignore it at your peril but we wont....they will even reject you for all your support you seem to endow on Muslim Immigrants, you seem to be an intelligent person, use your common sense and read their Holy Book, you can find it on Google.... anyway that do for now.... welshmen

2:06pm Sat 18 Jan 14

StopDeludingYourself says...

Lifethroughatintedle
nse
wrote:
Nuke em all........parasites

!
I would love to know who you are......
[quote][p][bold]Lifethroughatintedle nse[/bold] wrote: Nuke em all........parasites ![/p][/quote]I would love to know who you are...... StopDeludingYourself

5:25pm Sat 18 Jan 14

TattyAnn says...

Hello Welshmen

we're not going to agree on much are we?

Just to clarify though, I don't want an Islamic state either. Being a card carrying secular humanist, I wouldn't feel comfortable in any state ruled by any religion, Christianity included. And I would contend that the vast majority of Muslims living in the UK would not want an Islamic state. As I keep arguing, hardline religious fundamentalism of any kind has a history of destroying itself because people, aside from a couple of masochists, really don't want the hassle and pain of living that way.

My other point is that the more we find ways to separate humanity the more distrustful we become of people we perceive as separate - which was the start of my post. Two guys were having a right old rant about christmas lights being banned by the Hadith and I was fascinated by the fact that people basically reading the same book could find ways to have a do at each other using evidence from 12th Century scholars to support their argument. Such is religion - yet another way of being separate and competing against others to be the best and most holy! If there was a god, I could imagine her looking down and saying 'I don't remember telling you to do that!'

As for the UK - for a country of almost 70million, we generally live peacefully with a whole host of cultures, religions and communities. I'm not so naive to think that this would always be the case - small numbers of people (and they are in the minority) will always want a fight about something but the only way to deal with the challenges ahead is to understand that, stripped down, we're all just bones and water. Arguing about differences to the point of predicting a Holy war isn't offering solutions but working to find common ground might just.

If you really want somewhere to direct your vitriol, can I suggest the Banking Industry?

Wishing you peace, Welshmen.
Hello Welshmen we're not going to agree on much are we? Just to clarify though, I don't want an Islamic state either. Being a card carrying secular humanist, I wouldn't feel comfortable in any state ruled by any religion, Christianity included. And I would contend that the vast majority of Muslims living in the UK would not want an Islamic state. As I keep arguing, hardline religious fundamentalism of any kind has a history of destroying itself because people, aside from a couple of masochists, really don't want the hassle and pain of living that way. My other point is that the more we find ways to separate humanity the more distrustful we become of people we perceive as separate - which was the start of my post. Two guys were having a right old rant about christmas lights being banned by the Hadith and I was fascinated by the fact that people basically reading the same book could find ways to have a do at each other using evidence from 12th Century scholars to support their argument. Such is religion - yet another way of being separate and competing against others to be the best and most holy! If there was a god, I could imagine her looking down and saying 'I don't remember telling you to do that!' As for the UK - for a country of almost 70million, we generally live peacefully with a whole host of cultures, religions and communities. I'm not so naive to think that this would always be the case - small numbers of people (and they are in the minority) will always want a fight about something but the only way to deal with the challenges ahead is to understand that, stripped down, we're all just bones and water. Arguing about differences to the point of predicting a Holy war isn't offering solutions but working to find common ground might just. If you really want somewhere to direct your vitriol, can I suggest the Banking Industry? Wishing you peace, Welshmen. TattyAnn

6:29pm Sat 18 Jan 14

welshmen says...

TattyAnn wrote:
Hello Welshmen

we're not going to agree on much are we?

Just to clarify though, I don't want an Islamic state either. Being a card carrying secular humanist, I wouldn't feel comfortable in any state ruled by any religion, Christianity included. And I would contend that the vast majority of Muslims living in the UK would not want an Islamic state. As I keep arguing, hardline religious fundamentalism of any kind has a history of destroying itself because people, aside from a couple of masochists, really don't want the hassle and pain of living that way.

My other point is that the more we find ways to separate humanity the more distrustful we become of people we perceive as separate - which was the start of my post. Two guys were having a right old rant about christmas lights being banned by the Hadith and I was fascinated by the fact that people basically reading the same book could find ways to have a do at each other using evidence from 12th Century scholars to support their argument. Such is religion - yet another way of being separate and competing against others to be the best and most holy! If there was a god, I could imagine her looking down and saying 'I don't remember telling you to do that!'

As for the UK - for a country of almost 70million, we generally live peacefully with a whole host of cultures, religions and communities. I'm not so naive to think that this would always be the case - small numbers of people (and they are in the minority) will always want a fight about something but the only way to deal with the challenges ahead is to understand that, stripped down, we're all just bones and water. Arguing about differences to the point of predicting a Holy war isn't offering solutions but working to find common ground might just.

If you really want somewhere to direct your vitriol, can I suggest the Banking Industry?

Wishing you peace, Welshmen.
Hello Tattyann,

It's reported that the Muslim Brotherhood have opened an office in London this week, you know who they are,? I hope you do, while the general consensus of your post suggests we should all get along, I agree we should, and from what I see and read it's not that straight forward.

Their Holy Book allows the Muslim to denounce their faith to achieve their goal but only if deep down he/she knows he/she is still a Muslim, in our terms they can lie and lie to get that goal, it's not sinful, sadly their Holy Book caters for all eventualities that a Muslim will face in their Holy Books instruction to rule the world, and that is Shria Law, as for they are in the minority at the moment, there are about 4.9 Million Muslims with 1600 Mosques, they breed more than non believers.

According to the ONS, with in a few decades Muslims will be the majority in our Country, I and Millions of our Countrymen will not let the Muslim take our Country, like I have said a few times the MUSLIM doesn't MARRY into our way of life or our Culture or the British way of life although they all love coming to our Country.

If the Muslim doesn't change to engage with us fully like other immigrants then they need to go and settle in an Islamic state where they can practice their faith with impunity, marry into their own families as they do now and also pay for the privilege of looking after the mentally ill siblings they have marrying with the same blood lines,also having abortions of female babies, the Female Genital Mutilation their known to do, not withstanding the Coward (honour) killings, not a nice bunch the Mohammedan's, I would very much prefer their space than their Company, Churchill said similar in a speech he made in 1949... As for the Bankers I dislike their power, he who pays the piper calls the tune..... they will have a lot to answer too so will the war mungers when we get a Nationalist party in power....anyway time for tea, happy weekend....
[quote][p][bold]TattyAnn[/bold] wrote: Hello Welshmen we're not going to agree on much are we? Just to clarify though, I don't want an Islamic state either. Being a card carrying secular humanist, I wouldn't feel comfortable in any state ruled by any religion, Christianity included. And I would contend that the vast majority of Muslims living in the UK would not want an Islamic state. As I keep arguing, hardline religious fundamentalism of any kind has a history of destroying itself because people, aside from a couple of masochists, really don't want the hassle and pain of living that way. My other point is that the more we find ways to separate humanity the more distrustful we become of people we perceive as separate - which was the start of my post. Two guys were having a right old rant about christmas lights being banned by the Hadith and I was fascinated by the fact that people basically reading the same book could find ways to have a do at each other using evidence from 12th Century scholars to support their argument. Such is religion - yet another way of being separate and competing against others to be the best and most holy! If there was a god, I could imagine her looking down and saying 'I don't remember telling you to do that!' As for the UK - for a country of almost 70million, we generally live peacefully with a whole host of cultures, religions and communities. I'm not so naive to think that this would always be the case - small numbers of people (and they are in the minority) will always want a fight about something but the only way to deal with the challenges ahead is to understand that, stripped down, we're all just bones and water. Arguing about differences to the point of predicting a Holy war isn't offering solutions but working to find common ground might just. If you really want somewhere to direct your vitriol, can I suggest the Banking Industry? Wishing you peace, Welshmen.[/p][/quote]Hello Tattyann, It's reported that the Muslim Brotherhood have opened an office in London this week, you know who they are,? I hope you do, while the general consensus of your post suggests we should all get along, I agree we should, and from what I see and read it's not that straight forward. Their Holy Book allows the Muslim to denounce their faith to achieve their goal but only if deep down he/she knows he/she is still a Muslim, in our terms they can lie and lie to get that goal, it's not sinful, sadly their Holy Book caters for all eventualities that a Muslim will face in their Holy Books instruction to rule the world, and that is Shria Law, as for they are in the minority at the moment, there are about 4.9 Million Muslims with 1600 Mosques, they breed more than non believers. According to the ONS, with in a few decades Muslims will be the majority in our Country, I and Millions of our Countrymen will not let the Muslim take our Country, like I have said a few times the MUSLIM doesn't MARRY into our way of life or our Culture or the British way of life although they all love coming to our Country. If the Muslim doesn't change to engage with us fully like other immigrants then they need to go and settle in an Islamic state where they can practice their faith with impunity, marry into their own families as they do now and also pay for the privilege of looking after the mentally ill siblings they have marrying with the same blood lines,also having abortions of female babies, the Female Genital Mutilation their known to do, not withstanding the Coward (honour) killings, not a nice bunch the Mohammedan's, I would very much prefer their space than their Company, Churchill said similar in a speech he made in 1949... As for the Bankers I dislike their power, he who pays the piper calls the tune..... they will have a lot to answer too so will the war mungers when we get a Nationalist party in power....anyway time for tea, happy weekend.... welshmen

8:28pm Sat 18 Jan 14

M Foster says...

TattyAnn wrote:
"Yes it is a wondrous that, as you state, human beings have invented all these things to take us out of the dark ages. But what is significant about all these things? They were invented/discovered by just one section of humanity - the White European race. The rest of the world, of all races and religions, have massively benefited from them. Yet that species of humanity is under threat of extinction. In 20 years, even the indigenous White British alone will be a minority in their own country as things stand. "

Oh dear, M Foster.

I feel really sad that you have taken the point I made and used it to support your jingoistic argument. I could give you a long list of inventions that did not originate with White Europeans and that list would be created through use of our alphabet, the origins of which come from North Africa, so let's thank a non-white for our ability to do this, shall we?

The British Isles have always adopted, utilised and, yes exploited, the best of what other cultures have had to offer. The 'British Way of Life' that you're alluding to is an historical amalgam of hundreds of ways of life - the food we eat, the festivals, the English language, have all been influenced and improved by the cultures and people who have moved here or who have been colonised by the British. As part of your British Way of Life, you'll drink tea or coffee (India, S.America, Kenya), celebrate Christmas (Mid-East via the Romans), admire the English Rose (China and Middle East). I'll not go on...

I do think it is difficult to be precious about the 'indigenous, white British' as these have been minority since long before the Romans colonised these islands and unless your entire family have red hair and freckles, you would be hard pressed to trace your genetic line back to the level of purity that would give you any real right to argue from this standpoint.

The best innovation I hope for is that humanity will evolve its way of categorising and separating people by skin colour, age, gender, sexuality and find different ways of valuing the amazing things that human beings can do. My original point was about religious belief separating people and controlling/preventi

ng real innovation that might actually move us away from conflict by highlighting the ways we are similar. Marches don't hurt me and I like that we all use light to celebrate festivals - I certainly don't need a bloke writing in the 12th Century being subjectively interpreted today by another bloke, to tell me I'm sinning. I'll make that judgement myself as a rational, intelligent human.

As for your argument about Balkanisation of the UK, I know that you will dismiss this as naive however, I sincerely believe that all human beings prefer comfort and peace over conflict. We can all cite a minority, however my point about religious fundamentalism destroying itself is a prime case - humans don't want hardship which is why people choose to live here rather than countries with hardline fundamentalist regimes. Please don't let this country become the place that no-one goes to because of its hardline fundamentalist White Supremacist undercurrent. We've had more than enough of those - my Irish grandfather fought with his Indian colleagues to get rid of one of those.

With assimilation comes understanding and respect - give it a go.
Thanks for that TattyAnn.
We are oceans apart so all I can do is wish you a happy future in this coming Islamic state. You will then have 3 choices -
1) Convert to Islam (If you are not already)
2) Pay a jazia (a tax as a non-believer)
3) Be put to death.
Which will it be? What sort of religion is it that puts to death people who will not convert to their faith, in the case the mis-named "religion of peace"? The same for apostates, those that leave the Muslim faith.
When the Muslim population reaches a tipping point at around 30-40% you will see (as other counties have) violence erupt (a decimated army and police force can hardly resist) and this country will lament at not listening to, and acting upon, Enoch Powell's `Rivers of Blood' speech warnings.
The assimilation you speak of is just not going to happen as regards Muslims. The whole doctrine is to take over - not assimilate. The have NO allegience to the UK, or any country, only Islam. They say that themselves. So, if we need recruits for our army to fight for this country in a war, particularly against a Muslim country, how many do you think will join up? You know the answer. In such a situation, you are either with us or against us. Like in WW2, Germans and Italians here would have been interned. You cannot do that with millions of potential enemy.
I think you are a good person and I do hope your optimism for our all-let's-try-and-ge
t-on-together future is realised but, sadly I cannot share it.
[quote][p][bold]TattyAnn[/bold] wrote: "Yes it is a wondrous that, as you state, human beings have invented all these things to take us out of the dark ages. But what is significant about all these things? They were invented/discovered by just one section of humanity - the White European race. The rest of the world, of all races and religions, have massively benefited from them. Yet that species of humanity is under threat of extinction. In 20 years, even the indigenous White British alone will be a minority in their own country as things stand. " Oh dear, M Foster. I feel really sad that you have taken the point I made and used it to support your jingoistic argument. I could give you a long list of inventions that did not originate with White Europeans and that list would be created through use of our alphabet, the origins of which come from North Africa, so let's thank a non-white for our ability to do this, shall we? The British Isles have always adopted, utilised and, yes exploited, the best of what other cultures have had to offer. The 'British Way of Life' that you're alluding to is an historical amalgam of hundreds of ways of life - the food we eat, the festivals, the English language, have all been influenced and improved by the cultures and people who have moved here or who have been colonised by the British. As part of your British Way of Life, you'll drink tea or coffee (India, S.America, Kenya), celebrate Christmas (Mid-East via the Romans), admire the English Rose (China and Middle East). I'll not go on... I do think it is difficult to be precious about the 'indigenous, white British' as these have been minority since long before the Romans colonised these islands and unless your entire family have red hair and freckles, you would be hard pressed to trace your genetic line back to the level of purity that would give you any real right to argue from this standpoint. The best innovation I hope for is that humanity will evolve its way of categorising and separating people by skin colour, age, gender, sexuality and find different ways of valuing the amazing things that human beings can do. My original point was about religious belief separating people and controlling/preventi ng real innovation that might actually move us away from conflict by highlighting the ways we are similar. Marches don't hurt me and I like that we all use light to celebrate festivals - I certainly don't need a bloke writing in the 12th Century being subjectively interpreted today by another bloke, to tell me I'm sinning. I'll make that judgement myself as a rational, intelligent human. As for your argument about Balkanisation of the UK, I know that you will dismiss this as naive however, I sincerely believe that all human beings prefer comfort and peace over conflict. We can all cite a minority, however my point about religious fundamentalism destroying itself is a prime case - humans don't want hardship which is why people choose to live here rather than countries with hardline fundamentalist regimes. Please don't let this country become the place that no-one goes to because of its hardline fundamentalist White Supremacist undercurrent. We've had more than enough of those - my Irish grandfather fought with his Indian colleagues to get rid of one of those. With assimilation comes understanding and respect - give it a go.[/p][/quote]Thanks for that TattyAnn. We are oceans apart so all I can do is wish you a happy future in this coming Islamic state. You will then have 3 choices - 1) Convert to Islam (If you are not already) 2) Pay a jazia (a tax as a non-believer) 3) Be put to death. Which will it be? What sort of religion is it that puts to death people who will not convert to their faith, in the case the mis-named "religion of peace"? The same for apostates, those that leave the Muslim faith. When the Muslim population reaches a tipping point at around 30-40% you will see (as other counties have) violence erupt (a decimated army and police force can hardly resist) and this country will lament at not listening to, and acting upon, Enoch Powell's `Rivers of Blood' speech warnings. The assimilation you speak of is just not going to happen as regards Muslims. The whole doctrine is to take over - not assimilate. The have NO allegience to the UK, or any country, only Islam. They say that themselves. So, if we need recruits for our army to fight for this country in a war, particularly against a Muslim country, how many do you think will join up? You know the answer. In such a situation, you are either with us or against us. Like in WW2, Germans and Italians here would have been interned. You cannot do that with millions of potential enemy. I think you are a good person and I do hope your optimism for our all-let's-try-and-ge t-on-together future is realised but, sadly I cannot share it. M Foster

9:34pm Sun 19 Jan 14

Graham Hartley says...

I find it hard to accept that M Foster is correct to argue above that the mothers and fathers of inventions are white European. If we grant - as I think we must - that invention will continue, can there really be little or no chance that people other than white Europeans will prove to be inventive? Intelligence is confidently declared to be randomly distributed among populations - perhaps even among the population of LT readers (unless someone here can suggest why not) and this attribute is commonly held to be important for the success of invention.
I find it hard to accept that M Foster is correct to argue above that the mothers and fathers of inventions are white European. If we grant - as I think we must - that invention will continue, can there really be little or no chance that people other than white Europeans will prove to be inventive? Intelligence is confidently declared to be randomly distributed among populations - perhaps even among the population of LT readers (unless someone here can suggest why not) and this attribute is commonly held to be important for the success of invention. Graham Hartley

3:28pm Tue 21 Jan 14

salvadore says...

Active Citizen wrote:
Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia.

The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?)

Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it.

The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!!
Your comments say it all , Saudia is where Islam began not in Pakistan. This is a Shia tradition started 400 yrs after the prophet pbuh passing in Egypt. You mention everyone you believe celebrated the birth of the prophet pbuh besides the prophet pbuh himself. The one who we all should be following, the prophet pbuh never asked us or celebrated himself his birth. This is an innovation bidah. The Satan comes in many forms, this his best trick make the ummah do deeds which are contrary to Islam but make believers believe it's allowed. Ask your molvis they'll tell you the prophet pbuh and his companions never celebrated his birth.
[quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia. The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?) Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it. The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!![/p][/quote]Your comments say it all , Saudia is where Islam began not in Pakistan. This is a Shia tradition started 400 yrs after the prophet pbuh passing in Egypt. You mention everyone you believe celebrated the birth of the prophet pbuh besides the prophet pbuh himself. The one who we all should be following, the prophet pbuh never asked us or celebrated himself his birth. This is an innovation bidah. The Satan comes in many forms, this his best trick make the ummah do deeds which are contrary to Islam but make believers believe it's allowed. Ask your molvis they'll tell you the prophet pbuh and his companions never celebrated his birth. salvadore

3:34pm Tue 21 Jan 14

salvadore says...

Active Citizen wrote:
passingfootball wrote:
Active Citizen wrote:
Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia.

The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?)

Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it.

The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!!
@ Active Shitizen
What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to.

the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .
You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month???

Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant!

So let's turn the table here:
Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO
Surely they knew about the need for Dawah?

All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers.

If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat???

Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!!

The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing.
Tabligh jammat acts are sunnah something the celebration of the birth of the prophet pbuh is not. Tabligh teaches to learn, practice and then propagate deen. How much of a practice sing muslim are you, how are we going to propagate something when we don't do it ourselves. Hence rectify ourselves become like the prophet pbuh then we can truly be Muslim. The beloved prophet pbuh was human and is in madina no where else if you want to revere him follow his sunnah not an innovation bidah which celebrating his birth, lights and marching is.
[quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]passingfootball[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia. The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?) Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it. The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!![/p][/quote]@ Active Shitizen What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to. the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .[/p][/quote]You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month??? Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant! So let's turn the table here: Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO Surely they knew about the need for Dawah? All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers. If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat??? Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!! The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing.[/p][/quote]Tabligh jammat acts are sunnah something the celebration of the birth of the prophet pbuh is not. Tabligh teaches to learn, practice and then propagate deen. How much of a practice sing muslim are you, how are we going to propagate something when we don't do it ourselves. Hence rectify ourselves become like the prophet pbuh then we can truly be Muslim. The beloved prophet pbuh was human and is in madina no where else if you want to revere him follow his sunnah not an innovation bidah which celebrating his birth, lights and marching is. salvadore

3:41pm Tue 21 Jan 14

salvadore says...

Abdul Qadir Qadiri wrote:
Did Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428
Again coming out with Hadith that is nothing of the sort. You are making it up, I've got shahi Muslim and bukhari and no such Hadith exist. Don't tell me the barelwis are rewriting Hadith too.
[quote][p][bold]Abdul Qadir Qadiri[/bold] wrote: Did Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allaah be pleased with him) celebrate the Mawlid/Milad?: Yes Evidence Sahih Bukhari hadith No# 5428[/p][/quote]Again coming out with Hadith that is nothing of the sort. You are making it up, I've got shahi Muslim and bukhari and no such Hadith exist. Don't tell me the barelwis are rewriting Hadith too. salvadore

4:09pm Tue 21 Jan 14

salvadore says...

Active Citizen wrote:
Faithless wrote:
Abdul Qadir Qadiri wrote:
Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah.
Where in the Quran is this proven?

I've travelled the whole Muslim world extensively (Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Tunisia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Algeria, Lebanon, Libya) and I have found this tradition only amongst the Barelvi's originating in India/Pakistan. There are absolutely no authentic narrations (Hadiths) where the celebration of the Prophet's (pbuh) birthday is ordained.

The Prophet (pbuh) didn't celebrate his birthday, neither did the Sahaba and neither did the two generations that followed.

It seems to me that the Christians borrowed a lot of Christmas from the Pagans and Jews. The Barelvi's are following their traditions from the Christians - Barelvi's put up lights/decorations/t


rees to celebrate this event. We have been warned in authentic Hadith (sayings of the Prophet pbuh) and the Quran against this.

Next question: now you have the trees, lights and tinsel for this event, how long before you get the fat guy from the mosque to dress up in a red suit and go around saying, "ho ho ho"?
Lights!!! - what's the big issue about lights, I know they didn't have electric lights the centuries ago, so yes technically they are a bidah (innovation) but do you not have lights at home or in your mosques? The new Bicknell mosque has lights just to light up the towers?

Decoration - Your mosques are decorated with massive domes, expensive fixtures and fittings and towers - this is totally not proven from the sunnah? are you copying Christian cathedral?

About the fat guy from the mosque I think Hamid Patel (Tahuheedul) is the best guy for that role - he will do anything to integrate - especially if Jack or Kate asks him to ;)
Aah another ignorant ummati, lights are a pagan thing, they had candles at the time of the prophet pbuh or other ways to light up the rooms in the dark. They never lit any lights at the time of the prophets birth. This is bidah, total innovation the satans trick to make the beleivers belive they are doing a good deed when it is contrary to the teachings of islam. This way the ummah will never ask for forgiveness. as for islam the beloved prophet pbuh asked us to celebrate two days, eid ul fitr, eid ul adha no other days.
[quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Faithless[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abdul Qadir Qadiri[/bold] wrote: Is the celebration of Mawlid/Milad part of the religion of Islam?: YES as this is proven from Quran, Authentic Narrations & Rulings of scholars of Ahlusunnah aswell Non-Ahlusunnah.[/p][/quote]Where in the Quran is this proven? I've travelled the whole Muslim world extensively (Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Tunisia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, Algeria, Lebanon, Libya) and I have found this tradition only amongst the Barelvi's originating in India/Pakistan. There are absolutely no authentic narrations (Hadiths) where the celebration of the Prophet's (pbuh) birthday is ordained. The Prophet (pbuh) didn't celebrate his birthday, neither did the Sahaba and neither did the two generations that followed. It seems to me that the Christians borrowed a lot of Christmas from the Pagans and Jews. The Barelvi's are following their traditions from the Christians - Barelvi's put up lights/decorations/t rees to celebrate this event. We have been warned in authentic Hadith (sayings of the Prophet pbuh) and the Quran against this. Next question: now you have the trees, lights and tinsel for this event, how long before you get the fat guy from the mosque to dress up in a red suit and go around saying, "ho ho ho"?[/p][/quote]Lights!!! - what's the big issue about lights, I know they didn't have electric lights the centuries ago, so yes technically they are a bidah (innovation) but do you not have lights at home or in your mosques? The new Bicknell mosque has lights just to light up the towers? Decoration - Your mosques are decorated with massive domes, expensive fixtures and fittings and towers - this is totally not proven from the sunnah? are you copying Christian cathedral? About the fat guy from the mosque I think Hamid Patel (Tahuheedul) is the best guy for that role - he will do anything to integrate - especially if Jack or Kate asks him to ;)[/p][/quote]Aah another ignorant ummati, lights are a pagan thing, they had candles at the time of the prophet pbuh or other ways to light up the rooms in the dark. They never lit any lights at the time of the prophets birth. This is bidah, total innovation the satans trick to make the beleivers belive they are doing a good deed when it is contrary to the teachings of islam. This way the ummah will never ask for forgiveness. as for islam the beloved prophet pbuh asked us to celebrate two days, eid ul fitr, eid ul adha no other days. salvadore

4:14pm Tue 21 Jan 14

salvadore says...

Active Citizen wrote:
Faithless wrote:
Active Citizen wrote:
passingfootball wrote:
Active Citizen wrote:
Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia.

The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?)

Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it.

The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!!
@ Active Shitizen
What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to.

the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .
You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month???

Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant!

So let's turn the table here:
Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO
Surely they knew about the need for Dawah?

All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers.

If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat???

Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!!

The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing.
The Prophet sent out Sahabas as far as China inviting people into the fold of Islam - so yes the Prophet did invent Tablighi Jamaat.

Celebrating the Milad is imitating Christmas. Many friends who celebrate it now, speaking to their parents they says they did not celebrate it as children. The tinsel, lights and trees shows how much you are imitating Christianity.

I agree the Prophets are alive in their graves which is why you go to the Prophets grave to ask for intercession and to give salaam. The Prophet is not omnipotent, only God is omnipotent.
I think you are either deluded or simply lying.

The prophet and sahaba did tabligh and dawah - no doubt! BUT they did NOT invent the tablighi jamaat. this organisation along with all of its innovated rituals, books etc was created a guy called ilyas from Saharanpur, India in 1920s!

It was created to imitate they style of Christian missionary groups!

Many people who are in the tablighi jamaat speaking to their parents and grandparents thay say were not members!!!

Milad is the remembrance of the of the prophets's birth, please read the book on Mawlid written by Jalaludin Suyti (RA) he was from the 9th century and was not from the sub continent.

This is just an example of one scholar who is from the early era of Islam and not from the sub-continent who has commended the celebration of MIlad!!!
Tabligh is dawah the same as the prophet pbuh and companions did. Infact if you read the books of tabligh its all about sunnah of the prophet pbuh. how did islam come to the indian sub continent, ill tell you buy tabligh the spread of deen. Your comments show your ignorance of tabligh.
You can quote who you want but you cant quote the prophet pbuh asking us to celebrate milad. Neither did his companions this is a Egyptian shia invention 400 years after the prophets pbuh passing. What a real sad state of affairs you lot are.
[quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Faithless[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]passingfootball[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: Mawlid un Nabi is an established celebration across the Muslim world from east to west, all Muslim countries have a public holiday on this day except the puritans in Saudia Arabia. The Saudis are no authority in Islam as they have only been in existence since the 1920s (so the Saudi state is an innovation in itself?) Prior to them the Ottomans celebrated the Mawlid as a peaceful event throughout the empire - I have pics and videos to prove it. The Saudi and their minion do not like celebrating events like mawlid - as it is a peaceful celebration. They prefer to promote terrorism and extremism across the world!!![/p][/quote]@ Active Shitizen What are you celebrating, I am told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month, so what are you celebrating his birth or his death. All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual marches, if there was anything out there which would proved there love, they would have gone out and done it, the fact they didnt gives you all the more reason not to. the date of the passing or birth of a person doesn't make them great, in fact the Islamic calendar starts from his Hijra not his birth, you don't need to show Islam is great by copying Christmas with.your christmas lights in your windows and what not .[/p][/quote]You are told the birth and passing of the prophet fall on the same month??? Either you know or you don't - you start your post like an objective outsider and then you go onto your typical wobbler rant! So let's turn the table here: Did the prophet or his close companions establish the tablighi jamaat? NO Surely they knew about the need for Dawah? All you need to look at his closest friends and confidants, they actually proved their love, and it wasn't just by lip service or annual / weekly ijtima or preaching (jamaats) to those who are already believers. If there was anything out there which would proved this type of preaching they would have gone out and created it, the fact they didn't gives you all the more reason not to. So why don't YOU stop copying Christian missionaries and abandon this tablighi jamaat??? Back to your question the birth and passing away of the prophet do fall on the same day. The birth (MILAD) allows us the be given the honour to call ourselves an ummati (follower) - something which previous prophets prayed for!!! The passing away of the prophet does NOT at all take that honour of being an ummati away from us - in fact the following hadith tells us that even after death the prophet is alive "The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi) so we will celebrate and thank Allah for this great blessing.[/p][/quote]The Prophet sent out Sahabas as far as China inviting people into the fold of Islam - so yes the Prophet did invent Tablighi Jamaat. Celebrating the Milad is imitating Christmas. Many friends who celebrate it now, speaking to their parents they says they did not celebrate it as children. The tinsel, lights and trees shows how much you are imitating Christianity. I agree the Prophets are alive in their graves which is why you go to the Prophets grave to ask for intercession and to give salaam. The Prophet is not omnipotent, only God is omnipotent.[/p][/quote]I think you are either deluded or simply lying. The prophet and sahaba did tabligh and dawah - no doubt! BUT they did NOT invent the tablighi jamaat. this organisation along with all of its innovated rituals, books etc was created a guy called ilyas from Saharanpur, India in 1920s! It was created to imitate they style of Christian missionary groups! Many people who are in the tablighi jamaat speaking to their parents and grandparents thay say were not members!!! Milad is the remembrance of the of the prophets's birth, please read the book on Mawlid written by Jalaludin Suyti (RA) he was from the 9th century and was not from the sub continent. This is just an example of one scholar who is from the early era of Islam and not from the sub-continent who has commended the celebration of MIlad!!![/p][/quote]Tabligh is dawah the same as the prophet pbuh and companions did. Infact if you read the books of tabligh its all about sunnah of the prophet pbuh. how did islam come to the indian sub continent, ill tell you buy tabligh the spread of deen. Your comments show your ignorance of tabligh. You can quote who you want but you cant quote the prophet pbuh asking us to celebrate milad. Neither did his companions this is a Egyptian shia invention 400 years after the prophets pbuh passing. What a real sad state of affairs you lot are. salvadore

4:20pm Tue 21 Jan 14

salvadore says...

Active Citizen wrote:
StopDeludingYourself wrote:
Active Citizen wrote:
StopDeludingYourself wrote:
Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????
OK so how is it to waste money on domes and towers on your mosques all over Blackburn, where is the evidence for this?

Mosques have been rebuilt just to look good, spending millions of pounds!!!

Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????
I agree that is also a waste of money, just like the new mosque in Brierfield, there is simply no need to waste money on grand mosques in the UK.
I live in Blackburn some of the mosques that have spent silly money here are:
Tauheedul Bickneel Street,
Noorul Islam, Audley Range,
Jamea Audley Range.

And guess who came to the opening of Bicknell street mosque on the imams of makkah (who is like a pope for wahabi / salafis / deobandis ) - so I suppose he approves of this wastefulness or else why would he come?
To decorate a mosque is virtuous, yes over doing it is wrong you should add all the ones in Bradford, brieirfield. Are you saying the haram should not be made better for the comfort of the hajis? The imams of haram coming to Bicknell is a blessing, it shows that these revered people and remember not any old person can be an imam of both harams choose to come to places where bidah is shunned. there are many muslim countries where this milad innovation is not celebrated.
[quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]StopDeludingYourself[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Active Citizen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]StopDeludingYourself[/bold] wrote: Whether you believe it should be celebrated or not, why waste money on decorations, airplanes, car hires, marches? Nobody who support Mawlid, has answered this to me? Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????[/p][/quote]OK so how is it to waste money on domes and towers on your mosques all over Blackburn, where is the evidence for this? Mosques have been rebuilt just to look good, spending millions of pounds!!! Is it not better in the eyes of Allah our creator and the prophets creator, that we spend the money on the poor???????[/p][/quote]I agree that is also a waste of money, just like the new mosque in Brierfield, there is simply no need to waste money on grand mosques in the UK.[/p][/quote]I live in Blackburn some of the mosques that have spent silly money here are: Tauheedul Bickneel Street, Noorul Islam, Audley Range, Jamea Audley Range. And guess who came to the opening of Bicknell street mosque on the imams of makkah (who is like a pope for wahabi / salafis / deobandis ) - so I suppose he approves of this wastefulness or else why would he come?[/p][/quote]To decorate a mosque is virtuous, yes over doing it is wrong you should add all the ones in Bradford, brieirfield. Are you saying the haram should not be made better for the comfort of the hajis? The imams of haram coming to Bicknell is a blessing, it shows that these revered people and remember not any old person can be an imam of both harams choose to come to places where bidah is shunned. there are many muslim countries where this milad innovation is not celebrated. salvadore

6:53pm Tue 21 Jan 14

M Foster says...

Graham Hartley wrote:
I find it hard to accept that M Foster is correct to argue above that the mothers and fathers of inventions are white European. If we grant - as I think we must - that invention will continue, can there really be little or no chance that people other than white Europeans will prove to be inventive? Intelligence is confidently declared to be randomly distributed among populations - perhaps even among the population of LT readers (unless someone here can suggest why not) and this attribute is commonly held to be important for the success of invention.
Some might deem that pointing out that some races and ethnic groups are more intelligent than others as being racist. I would assert that this is not the case and that is just a matter of scientific fact. It is just the same in all of nature including the animal kingdom - bearing in mind we are just part of that. These groups do have differing I. Q’s as is typically shown in the chart shown here -

http://www.amerika.o
rg/social-reality/th
e-biological-basis-o
f-race/

Although the figures are only averages, we have Orientals (Hong Kong, N Korea, Japan, etc,) at the top with I. Q’s at around 105 to107. UK is 15th with a figure of 100 whilst at the bottom are the African countries (Ethiopia, Sierra Leone, Congo, etc,) at 59-65.

I am more than happy to accept that Orientals generally have a higher IQ than me (I am not offended by it) and I wish those further down the intelligence chain would not take offence (with screams of `RACIST', especially by our own) when others point out their current intellectual/inventi
ve limits.

Because I care about the survival of the White British/indigenous race (unsustainable with the current low birthrates and interbreeding) and felt compelled to respond to TattyAnn's human races' list of inventions as above, many people like her start talking about White Supremacists or even Nazis. This is absolute nonsense. The two issues are just not the same. I do not consider myself superior to anyone of any race, creed or colour. I have some distant West Indian heritage – I am white but brother is black.

Of course we have had previous `advanced' civilisations in different part of the world but I was referring to technical advancement in recent centuries, instigated by TattyAnn. Well, back to the rights and wrongs of the march.....
[quote][p][bold]Graham Hartley[/bold] wrote: I find it hard to accept that M Foster is correct to argue above that the mothers and fathers of inventions are white European. If we grant - as I think we must - that invention will continue, can there really be little or no chance that people other than white Europeans will prove to be inventive? Intelligence is confidently declared to be randomly distributed among populations - perhaps even among the population of LT readers (unless someone here can suggest why not) and this attribute is commonly held to be important for the success of invention.[/p][/quote]Some might deem that pointing out that some races and ethnic groups are more intelligent than others as being racist. I would assert that this is not the case and that is just a matter of scientific fact. It is just the same in all of nature including the animal kingdom - bearing in mind we are just part of that. These groups do have differing I. Q’s as is typically shown in the chart shown here - http://www.amerika.o rg/social-reality/th e-biological-basis-o f-race/ Although the figures are only averages, we have Orientals (Hong Kong, N Korea, Japan, etc,) at the top with I. Q’s at around 105 to107. UK is 15th with a figure of 100 whilst at the bottom are the African countries (Ethiopia, Sierra Leone, Congo, etc,) at 59-65. I am more than happy to accept that Orientals generally have a higher IQ than me (I am not offended by it) and I wish those further down the intelligence chain would not take offence (with screams of `RACIST', especially by our own) when others point out their current intellectual/inventi ve limits. Because I care about the survival of the White British/indigenous race (unsustainable with the current low birthrates and interbreeding) and felt compelled to respond to TattyAnn's human races' list of inventions as above, many people like her start talking about White Supremacists or even Nazis. This is absolute nonsense. The two issues are just not the same. I do not consider myself superior to anyone of any race, creed or colour. I have some distant West Indian heritage – I am white but brother is black. Of course we have had previous `advanced' civilisations in different part of the world but I was referring to technical advancement in recent centuries, instigated by TattyAnn. Well, back to the rights and wrongs of the march..... M Foster

10:22pm Tue 21 Jan 14

TattyAnn says...

Hi again M Foster

You're right - clear evidence that some races can score higher scores in IQ tests and a very interesting and well supported discussion of ONE notion of intelligence put forward by Amerika.org who are, surprise surprise, a Right Wing organisation. Nothing wrong in that - politics is politics and the subjective handling of statistics masquerading as 'scientific fact' will always support the viewpoint one subscribes to. Numbers don't lie - ever!!

I guess it all depends on what you define as 'intelligence' and the IQ test has long been criticised for trying to measure something that hasn't been adequately defined (Lippmann) - a bit like asking how long is a piece of string. Even Binet - the inventor of the IQ test - got a bit cheesed off with how it was being used. His intention was for the IQ to identify learning disability early enough to treat it; not for it to be used to prove the inferiority of individuals. The IQ test has always been recognised as distinctly class and culture centric to the point that some psychologists will argue that it simply measures your ability to do those tests. Whether that can truly stand as a definition of 'intelligence' is questionable.

The thing is, your response, and Salvadore's recent comments, have pretty much proved my point that we can take any bit of information and use it to prove how different we are. Once we set up a 'Me - Not Me' stance, it becomes all too easy to measure the 'Not Me' as deficient or substandard by 'My' standards. It then becomes near impossible not to prejudge, stereotype and even demonise those who are 'Not Me' particularly during times of hardship, recession and limited resources (1930's Europe is a good recent example).

I've been fortunate enough to meet many people who are 'Not Me' and have been struck by our similar needs to have comfort, peace, dignity, privacy, freedoms, rights and choices. Banging on about our differences is not going to ensure we get those needs met but making sure that rights, choices and freedoms are balanced and equally played through for all people is crucial. Whose freedoms were really infringed by the people celebrating their prophet's birthday? We cannot in principle ban one march without banning all - thereby infringing all of our liberties. We certainly shouldn't be banning it simply because it is different or because some people believe it is, as Salvadore contends, the devil's work!
Hi again M Foster You're right - clear evidence that some races can score higher scores in IQ tests and a very interesting and well supported discussion of ONE notion of intelligence put forward by Amerika.org who are, surprise surprise, a Right Wing organisation. Nothing wrong in that - politics is politics and the subjective handling of statistics masquerading as 'scientific fact' will always support the viewpoint one subscribes to. Numbers don't lie - ever!! I guess it all depends on what you define as 'intelligence' and the IQ test has long been criticised for trying to measure something that hasn't been adequately defined (Lippmann) - a bit like asking how long is a piece of string. Even Binet - the inventor of the IQ test - got a bit cheesed off with how it was being used. His intention was for the IQ to identify learning disability early enough to treat it; not for it to be used to prove the inferiority of individuals. The IQ test has always been recognised as distinctly class and culture centric to the point that some psychologists will argue that it simply measures your ability to do those tests. Whether that can truly stand as a definition of 'intelligence' is questionable. The thing is, your response, and Salvadore's recent comments, have pretty much proved my point that we can take any bit of information and use it to prove how different we are. Once we set up a 'Me - Not Me' stance, it becomes all too easy to measure the 'Not Me' as deficient or substandard by 'My' standards. It then becomes near impossible not to prejudge, stereotype and even demonise those who are 'Not Me' particularly during times of hardship, recession and limited resources (1930's Europe is a good recent example). I've been fortunate enough to meet many people who are 'Not Me' and have been struck by our similar needs to have comfort, peace, dignity, privacy, freedoms, rights and choices. Banging on about our differences is not going to ensure we get those needs met but making sure that rights, choices and freedoms are balanced and equally played through for all people is crucial. Whose freedoms were really infringed by the people celebrating their prophet's birthday? We cannot in principle ban one march without banning all - thereby infringing all of our liberties. We certainly shouldn't be banning it simply because it is different or because some people believe it is, as Salvadore contends, the devil's work! TattyAnn

6:40pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Graham Hartley says...

There's confirmation bias, a feature of some human inquiry which is loosely called 'looking for what we know'. I think it's apparent in comment here.

Suppose you're told that a person you don't know is artistic, and you can pose a series of yes/no questions to help you to decide if this is true. If you ask questions in this vein -

Do you enjoy reading poetry?

Do you visit art galleries?

then you are likely to be convinced that this person is indeed artistic no matter what answers are given.

The phenomenon was examined by Peter Wason, whose work was published in 1960. I had to look up that detail. What I remember from my student days is exhaustive treatments of data gathered from studies.
There's confirmation bias, a feature of some human inquiry which is loosely called 'looking for what we know'. I think it's apparent in comment here. Suppose you're told that a person you don't know is artistic, and you can pose a series of yes/no questions to help you to decide if this is true. If you ask questions in this vein - Do you enjoy reading poetry? Do you visit art galleries? then you are likely to be convinced that this person is indeed artistic no matter what answers are given. The phenomenon was examined by Peter Wason, whose work was published in 1960. I had to look up that detail. What I remember from my student days is exhaustive treatments of data gathered from studies. Graham Hartley

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