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Man who killed teenager convicted of murder
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| Mahmud Maksoudian |
A 22-year-old man who killed a 16-year-old boy after stabbing him outside a takeaway in Bolton has today been convicted of murder at Manchester Crown Court.
Mahmud Maksoudian, aged 22, of Madams Wood Road, Little Hulton has also been convicted of section 18 assault after seriously injuring another 16-year-old boy, Curtis McAtee in the incident.
Maksoudian has today been sentenced to life in prison to serve a minimum of 19 years.
At about 10.30pm on Friday August 17, 2007, Maksoudian was standing outside Ashys Takeaway on Plodder Lane, Farnworth, waiting for his food.
At the time Andrew Holland of Trentham Gardens was walking along Plodder Lane with Curtis and three other friends when he saw Maksoudian and walked over to him.
Maksoudian became angry and pushed him away and Andrew moved back while calling over two of his friends. There was an altercation between the group during which Maksoudian pulled a knife out of his trouser pocket but dropped it on the floor.
Curtis tried to push the defendant away but Maksoudian pushed him back and bent down and picked up the knife. He then grabbed Curtis and stabbed him in the left side of his abdomen before lashing out at Andrew and stabbing him in the neck.
The three boys ran away from Maksoudian but Andrew and Curtis collapsed a short distance away.
Maksoudian walked back into the takeaway, got a tissue for a cut to his finger and asked if his food could be delivered. He was still outside the takeaway when police arrived and was arrested.
Andrew and Curtis were taken to the Royal Bolton Hospital but Andrew's condition deteriorated and he died around midnight.
A post mortem examination revealed that he died as the result of a single stab wound.
Curtis, who had been stabbed in the abdomen made a good recovery and was released from hospital a week later. He was told it would take about five months before he would be back to full health.
Chief Inspector Peter Giles who led the investigation said: "This is a tragic case which highlights just how dangerous knives can be. We could have easily been dealing with two dead boys as a result of this attack and Maksoudian clearly had no regard for the consequences of his actions.
"We believe that Andrew went over to Maksoudian believing he was someone else but instead of just acknowledging his mistake, Maksoudian completely over reacted and lashed out. His actions resulted in the death of one boy and the near death of another.
"Our thoughts now of course lie with Andrew's family and I only hope that seeing the dangerous man who took away their son behind bars helps them begin to try and move on from this horrendous incident."
Andrew's mother, Joan Holland, said: "I feel as though I haven't got a future without Andrew and I fee as though I don't want to be here anymore. I won't be able to grow old with him beside me and there will be no 18th or 21st birthday to celebrate with him. I will never see him get married or settle down and have children. I just feel as though a huge part of me has been ripped away."
Curtis McAtee, who was in hospital for seven days after the attack and was on a ventilator in intensive care for part of that time, said: "To this day I have never walked along Plodder Lane or even been to Andy's Tree'. I don't like to go near large groups of people who I don't know and this even includes going into town. I've been scarred mentally as well as physically and I'll never feel the same as I used to because of the attack and because Andy's not here anymore."
1:52pm Friday 22nd February 2008
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CommentPosted by: Marty Hopkins on 3:32pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Why no mention these "angels" were 3 times over the drink drive limit ?
Sorry, for me wrong verdict, should have been manslaughter.
Let this be a lesson to the other kids who STILL congregate on Plodder Lane boozing. Booze does not make you a big man and you may pay with your life.
Why no mention these "angels" were 3 times over the drink drive limit ?
Sorry, for me wrong verdict, should have been manslaughter.
Let this be a lesson to the other kids who STILL congregate on Plodder Lane boozing. Booze does not make you a big man and you may pay with your life.
Posted by: Farnworth resident, Plodder Lane area on 3:40pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Before you all start with your gushing sentimentality's.
Spare a thought for the old folk terrorised by this gang not long previously, they've been forgotten.
Before you all start with your gushing sentimentality's.
Spare a thought for the old folk terrorised by this gang not long previously, they've been forgotten.
Posted by: notsurprised, BL on 4:16pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Interesting that the BEN is still playing the innocent young man just hanging around with his friends routine.
As opposed to heavily intoxicated youth with a relatively long criminal record for antisocial behaviour getting involved in a fight and coming off worst.
Don't get me wrong, he did not deserve to die, but imagine what the possible outcome would have been had the convicted man NOT used a knife - 3 drunken adult sized yobs against one man. Would the BEN have then been reporting another death ?
Will the parents of kids in this area think that this is a one off or do they understand that their lack of parenting is the primary reason why the area is seen as lawless and a dump, it used to be full of upstanding decent folk, now it's skiprat central with gangs of youths behaving exactly as on that night.
It's sad for the family, it's sad for the convicted man and it's sad for Bolton that we have incidents like this - but until the parents learn that unless they bring up their kids, those kids will grow up into toerags.
Interesting that the BEN is still playing the innocent young man just hanging around with his friends routine.
As opposed to heavily intoxicated youth with a relatively long criminal record for antisocial behaviour getting involved in a fight and coming off worst.
Don't get me wrong, he did not deserve to die, but imagine what the possible outcome would have been had the convicted man NOT used a knife - 3 drunken adult sized yobs against one man. Would the BEN have then been reporting another death ?
Will the parents of kids in this area think that this is a one off or do they understand that their lack of parenting is the primary reason why the area is seen as lawless and a dump, it used to be full of upstanding decent folk, now it's skiprat central with gangs of youths behaving exactly as on that night.
It's sad for the family, it's sad for the convicted man and it's sad for Bolton that we have incidents like this - but until the parents learn that unless they bring up their kids, those kids will grow up into toerags.
Posted by: ES, Bolton on 4:26pm Fri 22 Feb 08
This is a young man who lost his life. Whatever he has done in the past does not come into it. Was he driving? no! So why mention him being over the drink drive limit? Spare a thought for his family. Don't speak ill of the dead.
This is a young man who lost his life. Whatever he has done in the past does not come into it. Was he driving? no! So why mention him being over the drink drive limit? Spare a thought for his family. Don't speak ill of the dead.
Posted by: chas, suffolk on 4:30pm Fri 22 Feb 08
If it's true what the the first three comments have said, it is difficult to know why the man has been convicted of murder. I would also like to know why the youth called his mates over, if not to cause 'trouble'.
If it's true what the the first three comments have said, it is difficult to know why the man has been convicted of murder. I would also like to know why the youth called his mates over, if not to cause 'trouble'.
Posted by: notsurprised, BL on 4:30pm Fri 22 Feb 08
I am afraid it does come into it. At the time, this young man/youth/yob was drunk in a public place and was, with his friends accosting then uninvoled people and causing disturbance and noise. That escalated into violence and it was 3 against 1. I am not speaking ill of the dead - but by the same token, I don't think it's sensible to ignore the fact the dead boy was no angel - had he not been drunk on the street, had he not been being antisocial and had he not been, with his 'mates' fighting one man on his own, he'd not have been stabbed.
I am afraid it does come into it. At the time, this young man/youth/yob was drunk in a public place and was, with his friends accosting then uninvoled people and causing disturbance and noise. That escalated into violence and it was 3 against 1. I am not speaking ill of the dead - but by the same token, I don't think it's sensible to ignore the fact the dead boy was no angel - had he not been drunk on the street, had he not been being antisocial and had he not been, with his 'mates' fighting one man on his own, he'd not have been stabbed.
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 4:31pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]notsurprised[/bold] wrote:
Interesting that the BEN is still playing the innocent young man just hanging around with his friends routine. As opposed to heavily intoxicated youth with a relatively long criminal record for antisocial behaviour getting involved in a fight and coming off worst. Don't get me wrong, he did not deserve to die, but imagine what the possible outcome would have been had the convicted man NOT used a knife - 3 drunken adult sized yobs against one man. Would the BEN have then been reporting another death ? Will the parents of kids in this area think that this is a one off or do they understand that their lack of parenting is the primary reason why the area is seen as lawless and a dump, it used to be full of upstanding decent folk, now it's skiprat central with gangs of youths behaving exactly as on that night. It's sad for the family, it's sad for the convicted man and it's sad for Bolton that we have incidents like this - but until the parents learn that unless they bring up their kids, those kids will grow up into toerags.[/quote] its sad for the convicted man?you have got issues,how can you talk of reasonable behaviour,from young people when a cold blooded foreighner,no idea of what civil lifes about,suddenley,stab
s a kid,and then prepares for supper,WHOS THE MOST SAD IN THE HEAD??
notsurprised wrote:
Interesting that the BEN is still playing the innocent young man just hanging around with his friends routine. As opposed to heavily intoxicated youth with a relatively long criminal record for antisocial behaviour getting involved in a fight and coming off worst. Don't get me wrong, he did not deserve to die, but imagine what the possible outcome would have been had the convicted man NOT used a knife - 3 drunken adult sized yobs against one man. Would the BEN have then been reporting another death ? Will the parents of kids in this area think that this is a one off or do they understand that their lack of parenting is the primary reason why the area is seen as lawless and a dump, it used to be full of upstanding decent folk, now it's skiprat central with gangs of youths behaving exactly as on that night. It's sad for the family, it's sad for the convicted man and it's sad for Bolton that we have incidents like this - but until the parents learn that unless they bring up their kids, those kids will grow up into toerags.
its sad for the convicted man?you have got issues,how can you talk of reasonable behaviour,from young people when a cold blooded foreighner,no idea of what civil lifes about,suddenley,stab
s a kid,and then prepares for supper,WHOS THE MOST SAD IN THE HEAD??
Posted by: Gene Hunt on 4:31pm Fri 22 Feb 08
It's not a case of speaking ill of the dead. It's a tragedy for all concerned.
However, had these kids not been boozed up, would he have had the bravado that probably put him in this position in the first place ?
It's not a case of speaking ill of the dead. It's a tragedy for all concerned.
However, had these kids not been boozed up, would he have had the bravado that probably put him in this position in the first place ?
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 4:34pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Marty Hopkins[/bold] wrote:
Why no mention these "angels" were 3 times over the drink drive limit ? Sorry, for me wrong verdict, should have been manslaughter. Let this be a lesson to the other kids who STILL congregate on Plodder Lane boozing. Booze does not make you a big man and you may pay with your life.[/quote] DONT DRINK BOOZE OR YOU WILL GET STABBED TO DEATH?? MANSLAUGHTER,I HOPE TO HERE THIS,MURDERER,IS ON BREAD AND WATER
Marty Hopkins wrote:
Why no mention these "angels" were 3 times over the drink drive limit ? Sorry, for me wrong verdict, should have been manslaughter. Let this be a lesson to the other kids who STILL congregate on Plodder Lane boozing. Booze does not make you a big man and you may pay with your life.
DONT DRINK BOOZE OR YOU WILL GET STABBED TO DEATH?? MANSLAUGHTER,I HOPE TO HERE THIS,MURDERER,IS ON BREAD AND WATER
Posted by: chas, suffolk on 4:35pm Fri 22 Feb 08
'cold blooded foreigner'. That maybe why they picked on him.
'cold blooded foreigner'. That maybe why they picked on him.
Posted by: Gene Hunt on 4:36pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Get your comments in first and quick boys and girls. This comment section is about to go South.
Get your comments in first and quick boys and girls. This comment section is about to go South.
Posted by: OldBoltonian on 4:37pm Fri 22 Feb 08
What a lawless craphole of a country. I would not hesitate to stab and kill anyone attacking me in similar circumstances - there are too many reports of people being beaten and kicked to death by these thugs to waste time waiting to see if they'd stop at a few harsh words and offensive gestures, there's no point challenging them to a bit of Marquess of Queensbury rules boxing now is there? Mind you, I'd expect to get off scott free on self-defence. A murder conviction rather suggests either the stabber had a really terrible legal team OR there's a lot more to this than the BN report manages to convey (so no surprises there then).
What a lawless craphole of a country. I would not hesitate to stab and kill anyone attacking me in similar circumstances - there are too many reports of people being beaten and kicked to death by these thugs to waste time waiting to see if they'd stop at a few harsh words and offensive gestures, there's no point challenging them to a bit of Marquess of Queensbury rules boxing now is there? Mind you, I'd expect to get off scott free on self-defence. A murder conviction rather suggests either the stabber had a really terrible legal team OR there's a lot more to this than the BN report manages to convey (so no surprises there then).
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 4:37pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]chas[/bold] wrote:
If it's true what the the first three comments have said, it is difficult to know why the man has been convicted of murder. I would also like to know why the youth called his mates over, if not to cause 'trouble'. [/quote] I WANT TO KNOW WHY THIS CONVICTED MURDERER DID NOT FLEE,TO SAFETY,?? WAS IT BECAUSE IN HIS CULTURE STABBING IS THE NORM,I HOPE HE IS NOT CLAIMING DHSS FOR THE NEXT 19 YEARS.
chas wrote:
If it's true what the the first three comments have said, it is difficult to know why the man has been convicted of murder. I would also like to know why the youth called his mates over, if not to cause 'trouble'.
I WANT TO KNOW WHY THIS CONVICTED MURDERER DID NOT FLEE,TO SAFETY,?? WAS IT BECAUSE IN HIS CULTURE STABBING IS THE NORM,I HOPE HE IS NOT CLAIMING DHSS FOR THE NEXT 19 YEARS.
Posted by: Farnworth resident, Plodder Lane area on 4:39pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Of the recent Murders in Farnworth, look how many have alcohol involved 99% ? Does that not tell you something ?
And yes, Farnworth was once full of fine upstanding folk, difference was, they worked.
Of the recent Murders in Farnworth, look how many have alcohol involved 99% ? Does that not tell you something ?
And yes, Farnworth was once full of fine upstanding folk, difference was, they worked.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 4:41pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Britain today, lawless scumbags, crap parents, disarray.
Britain today, lawless scumbags, crap parents, disarray.
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 4:41pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]notsurprised[/bold] wrote:
I am afraid it does come into it. At the time, this young man/youth/yob was drunk in a public place and was, with his friends accosting then uninvoled people and causing disturbance and noise. That escalated into violence and it was 3 against 1. I am not speaking ill of the dead - but by the same token, I don't think it's sensible to ignore the fact the dead boy was no angel - had he not been drunk on the street, had he not been being antisocial and had he not been, with his 'mates' fighting one man on his own, he'd not have been stabbed.[/quote] IF MY AUNTY HAD BEEN MY,UNCLE,HE WOULD HAVE HAD TITS,3 TO 1 ID BE GONE ,DIDNT PUT HIM OFF HIS,SUPPER O IVE HAD TO STAB SOMEBODY CAN,YOU DELIVER INSTEAD,MIGHT HAPPEN IN ISTANBUL THIS IS ENGLAND...AND LAWS DO EXIST 19 YEARS BREAD AN WATER
notsurprised wrote:
I am afraid it does come into it. At the time, this young man/youth/yob was drunk in a public place and was, with his friends accosting then uninvoled people and causing disturbance and noise. That escalated into violence and it was 3 against 1. I am not speaking ill of the dead - but by the same token, I don't think it's sensible to ignore the fact the dead boy was no angel - had he not been drunk on the street, had he not been being antisocial and had he not been, with his 'mates' fighting one man on his own, he'd not have been stabbed.
IF MY AUNTY HAD BEEN MY,UNCLE,HE WOULD HAVE HAD TITS,3 TO 1 ID BE GONE ,DIDNT PUT HIM OFF HIS,SUPPER O IVE HAD TO STAB SOMEBODY CAN,YOU DELIVER INSTEAD,MIGHT HAPPEN IN ISTANBUL THIS IS ENGLAND...AND LAWS DO EXIST 19 YEARS BREAD AN WATER
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 4:42pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Farnworth resident
People have got drunk for years, we didn't have this thirty years ago, stop blaming booze, it's crap parenting that's the problem
Farnworth resident
People have got drunk for years, we didn't have this thirty years ago, stop blaming booze, it's crap parenting that's the problem
Posted by: Missy, F/w on 4:42pm Fri 22 Feb 08
It has been proven that Mahmud Maksoudian was carrying a knife on the night of the killing y was he carrying it if not to cuse trouble with someone. He says it was in his pocket from work and he forgot to put it bk how do we know wot he was really thinking he said he used it in self defence. If he had been attaked with a glass bottle or a knife them fare enough self defence but the 3 boys never did that i say he got wot he deserved tho 19 yrs from now he will have his life bk where will andrews life be stuck at 16 forever.Do i feel sorry for Mahmud Maksoudian not at all
It has been proven that Mahmud Maksoudian was carrying a knife on the night of the killing y was he carrying it if not to cuse trouble with someone. He says it was in his pocket from work and he forgot to put it bk how do we know wot he was really thinking he said he used it in self defence. If he had been attaked with a glass bottle or a knife them fare enough self defence but the 3 boys never did that i say he got wot he deserved tho 19 yrs from now he will have his life bk where will andrews life be stuck at 16 forever.Do i feel sorry for Mahmud Maksoudian not at all
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 4:43pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]chas[/bold] wrote:
'cold blooded foreigner'. That maybe why they picked on him.[/quote] THERS NO MAYBES IN LAW JUST FACTS....WE HAVE CHINKED BEFORE LEARN THE LAW??
chas wrote:
'cold blooded foreigner'. That maybe why they picked on him.
THERS NO MAYBES IN LAW JUST FACTS....WE HAVE CHINKED BEFORE LEARN THE LAW??
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 4:47pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]boris[/bold] wrote:
Farnworth resident People have got drunk for years, we didn't have this thirty years ago, stop blaming booze, it's crap parenting that's the problem[/quote] SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE VICTORIAN ERA...PROBLEM THESE DAYS PEOPLE ARE BOTTLESS,MEDIA HYPES AND.SKYPES THE NEWS TO US 500 MILES AN HOUR ,WE ARE ALL DOOMED......PRESS THE BUTTON
boris wrote:
Farnworth resident People have got drunk for years, we didn't have this thirty years ago, stop blaming booze, it's crap parenting that's the problem
SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE VICTORIAN ERA...PROBLEM THESE DAYS PEOPLE ARE BOTTLESS,MEDIA HYPES AND.SKYPES THE NEWS TO US 500 MILES AN HOUR ,WE ARE ALL DOOMED......PRESS THE BUTTON
Posted by: chas, suffolk on 4:49pm Fri 22 Feb 08
parishner.
You make it sound like a 'CAPITAL' offence.
parishner.
You make it sound like a 'CAPITAL' offence.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 4:51pm Fri 22 Feb 08
parisher wrote
[quote]PROBLEM THESE DAYS PEOPLE ARE BOTTLESS[/quote]
Poor s.ds, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. How do they go to the toilet???
parisher wrote
PROBLEM THESE DAYS PEOPLE ARE BOTTLESS
Poor s.ds, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. How do they go to the toilet???
Posted by: Marty Hopkins, Farnworth on 4:56pm Fri 22 Feb 08
So some of you think this funny? Then sit on your high horse in judgement?
I dont know who's worse, then you have the audacity to claim you would never post on a deceased thread well I'm afraid that stinks to me.
So some of you think this funny? Then sit on your high horse in judgement?
I dont know who's worse, then you have the audacity to claim you would never post on a deceased thread well I'm afraid that stinks to me.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 4:58pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Marty
What have I said that's an insult???
Marty
What have I said that's an insult???
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 5:02pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Marty
You are the insult, you say in an eralier post this should be manslaughter, shame on you. This is murder.
Marty
You are the insult, you say in an eralier post this should be manslaughter, shame on you. This is murder.
Posted by: Serena C, Farnworth on 5:03pm Fri 22 Feb 08
I would just like to say to all those still arguing over the fact that Mamud has been given 19 years and are wondering why? and to all those against this, non of you attended the court hearings and were not present on the night of the attack and so as far as you are concerned you know the minimal of what happened on the 17th of August 2007. The BEN have not printed the full story in detail and maybe never will. Only the people present at the time and the family and friends who attended court will no the truth of the night. So instead of bad mouthing Andrew or arguing over the sentencing, spare a thought for the familys at this difficult time. As the saying goes 'those who live in glass houses should not throw stones'.
Justice has been done, Andrew can finally rest in peace.
RIP Andrew Holland All Our Love xxx
I would just like to say to all those still arguing over the fact that Mamud has been given 19 years and are wondering why? and to all those against this, non of you attended the court hearings and were not present on the night of the attack and so as far as you are concerned you know the minimal of what happened on the 17th of August 2007. The BEN have not printed the full story in detail and maybe never will. Only the people present at the time and the family and friends who attended court will no the truth of the night. So instead of bad mouthing Andrew or arguing over the sentencing, spare a thought for the familys at this difficult time. As the saying goes 'those who live in glass houses should not throw stones'.
Justice has been done, Andrew can finally rest in peace.
RIP Andrew Holland All Our Love xxx
Posted by: chas, suffolk on 5:03pm Fri 22 Feb 08
The BN has asked for comments and that is what we are doing.
The BN has asked for comments and that is what we are doing.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 5:03pm Fri 22 Feb 08
earlier.
Posted by: Marty Hopkins, Farnworth on 5:06pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Listen yokel, if you dont know what you write or understand, keep to your local press and picking apples. The sooner your off here the better for all. Your Bill and Ben tricks are boring and tiresome, taking up my bandwidth.
Listen yokel, if you dont know what you write or understand, keep to your local press and picking apples. The sooner your off here the better for all. Your Bill and Ben tricks are boring and tiresome, taking up my bandwidth.
Posted by: emma, bolton on 5:08pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Serena C[/bold] wrote:
I would just like to say to all those still arguing over the fact that Mamud has been given 19 years and are wondering why? and to all those against this, non of you attended the court hearings and were not present on the night of the attack and so as far as you are concerned you know the minimal of what happened on the 17th of August 2007. The BEN have not printed the full story in detail and maybe never will. Only the people present at the time and the family and friends who attended court will no the truth of the night. So instead of bad mouthing Andrew or arguing over the sentencing, spare a thought for the familys at this difficult time. As the saying goes 'those who live in glass houses should not throw stones'. Justice has been done, Andrew can finally rest in peace. RIP Andrew Holland All Our Love xxx[/quote] go on then, what happened?
Serena C wrote:
I would just like to say to all those still arguing over the fact that Mamud has been given 19 years and are wondering why? and to all those against this, non of you attended the court hearings and were not present on the night of the attack and so as far as you are concerned you know the minimal of what happened on the 17th of August 2007. The BEN have not printed the full story in detail and maybe never will. Only the people present at the time and the family and friends who attended court will no the truth of the night. So instead of bad mouthing Andrew or arguing over the sentencing, spare a thought for the familys at this difficult time. As the saying goes 'those who live in glass houses should not throw stones'. Justice has been done, Andrew can finally rest in peace. RIP Andrew Holland All Our Love xxx
go on then, what happened?
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 5:08pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Marty wrote
[quote]Listen yokel, if you dont know what you write or understand, keep to your local press and picking apples. The sooner your off here the better for all. Your Bill and Ben tricks are boring and tiresome, taking up my bandwidth.[/quote]
this is what you wrote
[quote]Why no mention these "angels" were 3 times over the drink drive limit ?
Sorry, for me wrong verdict, should have been manslaughter.
Let this be a lesson to the other kids who STILL congregate on Plodder Lane boozing. Booze does not make you a big man and you may pay with your life.[/quote]
Prat.
Marty wrote
Listen yokel, if you dont know what you write or understand, keep to your local press and picking apples. The sooner your off here the better for all. Your Bill and Ben tricks are boring and tiresome, taking up my bandwidth.
this is what you wrote
Why no mention these "angels" were 3 times over the drink drive limit ?
Sorry, for me wrong verdict, should have been manslaughter.
Let this be a lesson to the other kids who STILL congregate on Plodder Lane boozing. Booze does not make you a big man and you may pay with your life.
Prat.
Posted by: chas, suffolk on 5:09pm Fri 22 Feb 08
I would like to know why the BN has an article on a Suffolk story.
I would like to know why the BN has an article on a Suffolk story.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 5:13pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Little sh1t, deserved it.Spawned by the Devil eh chas.
Little sh1t, deserved it.Spawned by the Devil eh chas.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 5:14pm Fri 22 Feb 08
chas
It's the imposter.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 5:15pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Marty
For your information it's imposters like this that are depraved.
[quote]Little sh1t, deserved it.Spawned by the Devil eh chas.[/quote]
Marty
For your information it's imposters like this that are depraved.
Little sh1t, deserved it.Spawned by the Devil eh chas.
Posted by: chas, suffolk on 5:16pm Fri 22 Feb 08
emma.
We would all like to know the missing details.
emma.
We would all like to know the missing details.
Posted by: chas, suffolk on 5:24pm Fri 22 Feb 08
I would like to know how the BN allows somebody to use somebody else's name. boris, look at 5.20pm. and you will know it's not me.
I would like to know how the BN allows somebody to use somebody else's name. boris, look at 5.20pm. and you will know it's not me.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 5:25pm Fri 22 Feb 08
I know chas, it's him.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 5:28pm Fri 22 Feb 08
you know??? thingy with the rag arm.
you know??? thingy with the rag arm.
Posted by: chas, suffolk on 5:30pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Im turning off for a while now and let the idiot have his fun.
Im turning off for a while now and let the idiot have his fun.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 5:30pm Fri 22 Feb 08
chas
agreed
Posted by: notsurprised, BL on 5:49pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Whether the killer is a 'foreigner' or not is irrelevant. What is if had been a middle aged white man out protecting his property from drunken youths - oh, that was Warrington, wasn't it ?
I feel a bit for the convicted murderer, because I don't think (from what has been disclosed) that he had any option but to use the knife to deter the three attackers. It's been out in court and was not challenged that he pulled a knife, then dropped it - Master Holland and co could have run away at that point (and hd opportunity to do so) - except they did not, they piled into the man together and wante da fight, thinking the odds were in their favour.
Tragically for all concerned, they were wrong and someone died. There is a mother and father grieving - and will continue to do so - but let's not delude ourselves, the deceased was a convicted multiple criminal at an early age and was seemingly well known for drunken antisocial gang behaviour in the area - is it really such a surprise that the dysfunctional way he lived and the havoc he wreaked on others came back to him. Tragic, but not surprising.
Whether the killer is a 'foreigner' or not is irrelevant. What is if had been a middle aged white man out protecting his property from drunken youths - oh, that was Warrington, wasn't it ?
I feel a bit for the convicted murderer, because I don't think (from what has been disclosed) that he had any option but to use the knife to deter the three attackers. It's been out in court and was not challenged that he pulled a knife, then dropped it - Master Holland and co could have run away at that point (and hd opportunity to do so) - except they did not, they piled into the man together and wante da fight, thinking the odds were in their favour.
Tragically for all concerned, they were wrong and someone died. There is a mother and father grieving - and will continue to do so - but let's not delude ourselves, the deceased was a convicted multiple criminal at an early age and was seemingly well known for drunken antisocial gang behaviour in the area - is it really such a surprise that the dysfunctional way he lived and the havoc he wreaked on others came back to him. Tragic, but not surprising.
Posted by: amosc99, Overseas on 5:51pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Those two should be banned from these forums.all they ever do is bicker like two grumpy old men and have nothing to contribute to affairs in Bolton, they're not even from our great Town!!!
Those two should be banned from these forums.all they ever do is bicker like two grumpy old men and have nothing to contribute to affairs in Bolton, they're not even from our great Town!!!
Posted by: Farnworth resident, Plodder Lane area on 5:59pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Nobody mentions how he'd had an old fella by the throat some weeks earlier. I'm sorry if this "upsets" a few, but truth hurts. It seems because Holland lost his life, he's a victim if that makes sense?But spare a thought for his.
It's laughable his partner in crime now says he's afraid to go out, what about the old folks they terrorised, they should be allowed a quality of life but these two took that away for some of them.
Nobody mentions how he'd had an old fella by the throat some weeks earlier. I'm sorry if this "upsets" a few, but truth hurts. It seems because Holland lost his life, he's a victim if that makes sense?But spare a thought for his.
It's laughable his partner in crime now says he's afraid to go out, what about the old folks they terrorised, they should be allowed a quality of life but these two took that away for some of them.
Posted by: emma, bolton on 6:06pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]chas[/bold] wrote:
I would like to know why the BN has an article on a Suffolk story.[/quote] to cater for the Suffolk readers!
chas wrote:
I would like to know why the BN has an article on a Suffolk story.
to cater for the Suffolk readers!
Posted by: emma, bolton on 6:16pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Farnworth resident[/bold] wrote:
Nobody mentions how he'd had an old fella by the throat some weeks earlier. I'm sorry if this "upsets" a few, but truth hurts. It seems because Holland lost his life, he's a victim if that makes sense?But spare a thought for his. It's laughable his partner in crime now says he's afraid to go out, what about the old folks they terrorised, they should be allowed a quality of life but these two took that away for some of them.[/quote] what goes around comes around eh.
Farnworth resident wrote:
Nobody mentions how he'd had an old fella by the throat some weeks earlier. I'm sorry if this "upsets" a few, but truth hurts. It seems because Holland lost his life, he's a victim if that makes sense?But spare a thought for his. It's laughable his partner in crime now says he's afraid to go out, what about the old folks they terrorised, they should be allowed a quality of life but these two took that away for some of them.
what goes around comes around eh.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 6:23pm Fri 22 Feb 08
The imposter wrote
[quote]Those two should be banned from these forums.all they ever do is bicker like two grumpy old men and have nothing to contribute to affairs in Bolton, they're not even from our great Town!!![/quote]
The imposter wrote
Those two should be banned from these forums.all they ever do is bicker like two grumpy old men and have nothing to contribute to affairs in Bolton, they're not even from our great Town!!!
Posted by: cazz, BOLTON on 6:26pm Fri 22 Feb 08
i know a lot about the story as my daughter was key witness.i really think its 6 of 1 half dozen of the other.he should NOT have been carrying a knife.they did NOT deserved to be stabbed.while rachel was on phone to police he was stood at side of her asking for food to be delivered to house.wot kind of sane person would want food after stabbing 2 young lads.joan ,marjorie & family i hope this has brought you some kind of peace of mind even though it wont bring andrew back ..god bless
i know a lot about the story as my daughter was key witness.i really think its 6 of 1 half dozen of the other.he should NOT have been carrying a knife.they did NOT deserved to be stabbed.while rachel was on phone to police he was stood at side of her asking for food to be delivered to house.wot kind of sane person would want food after stabbing 2 young lads.joan ,marjorie & family i hope this has brought you some kind of peace of mind even though it wont bring andrew back ..god bless
Posted by: cazz, BOLTON on 6:37pm Fri 22 Feb 08
coz wasnt sure of step dads name...ive known joan n marjorie years friend of my mums ok..tommo...there u go
coz wasnt sure of step dads name...ive known joan n marjorie years friend of my mums ok..tommo...there u go
Posted by: amosc99, Overseas on 6:38pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Cazz, why have you forgot to add they attacked Mr.Maksoudian first? Does this not count for anything?
Maksoudian would probably never have been in this country if it wasn't for Blair's war.
Cazz, why have you forgot to add they attacked Mr.Maksoudian first? Does this not count for anything?
Maksoudian would probably never have been in this country if it wasn't for Blair's war.
Posted by: cazz, BOLTON on 6:45pm Fri 22 Feb 08
not forgot to add anything if you have followed the story & statements you would have read for yourself.so theres no need for me 2 add.im just glad its over with now..
not forgot to add anything if you have followed the story & statements you would have read for yourself.so theres no need for me 2 add.im just glad its over with now..
Posted by: ScaryPoppins, Bolton on 7:08pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[bold]bold[/bold] I have been disgusted by most of the comments posted on here regarding a young teenage boy, being stabbed to death. I find it hard to believe that any adult with only a small amount of brain cells can actually think this boy deserved to die, and that this murderer should be charged with manslaughter I am presuming that your not white british citizens. Teenagers do drink and can be a pain in the backside they need sorting out not killing. I bet you wouldnt knock on his poor families door and say that to their face, your a disgrace. Get a life, If you havnt got anything decent to say, dont say it.Utter scum, your repulsive.
I have been disgusted by most of the comments posted on here regarding a young teenage boy, being stabbed to death. I find it hard to believe that any adult with only a small amount of brain cells can actually think this boy deserved to die, and that this murderer should be charged with manslaughter I am presuming that your not white british citizens. Teenagers do drink and can be a pain in the backside they need sorting out not killing. I bet you wouldnt knock on his poor families door and say that to their face, your a disgrace. Get a life, If you havnt got anything decent to say, dont say it.Utter scum, your repulsive.
Posted by: OldBoltonian on 7:13pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote]It has been proven that Mahmud Maksoudian was carrying a knife on the night of the killing y was he carrying it[/quote]
Because he was in Franworth? I think the events have proven the point.
And Poppy - take a deep breath and open your eyes woman.
It has been proven that Mahmud Maksoudian was carrying a knife on the night of the killing y was he carrying it
Because he was in Franworth? I think the events have proven the point.
And Poppy - take a deep breath and open your eyes woman.
Posted by: Den, Leigh on 7:14pm Fri 22 Feb 08
ScaryPoppins, your one of these who thinks it's OK for your kiddies to drink, go mob handed 3 against one and cry when they come worst off?
Tell Mrs. Newlove that.
ScaryPoppins, your one of these who thinks it's OK for your kiddies to drink, go mob handed 3 against one and cry when they come worst off?
Tell Mrs. Newlove that.
Posted by: Zimmy, Manc on 7:20pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Feral, born to sh1t, died in sh1t.It might be one of yours next time, how many of you know where your animals are tonight?
Feral, born to sh1t, died in sh1t.It might be one of yours next time, how many of you know where your animals are tonight?
Posted by: emma, bolton on 7:28pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]ScaryPoppins[/bold] wrote:
[bold]bold[/bold] I have been disgusted by most of the comments posted on here regarding a young teenage boy, being stabbed to death. I find it hard to believe that any adult with only a small amount of brain cells can actually think this boy deserved to die, and that this murderer should be charged with manslaughter I am presuming that your not white british citizens. Teenagers do drink and can be a pain in the backside they need sorting out not killing. I bet you wouldnt knock on his poor families door and say that to their face, your a disgrace. Get a life, If you havnt got anything decent to say, dont say it.Utter scum, your repulsive. [/quote] Scarypoppins have you read the last post by Farnworth Resident.
If what FR says is true about Holland having an old man by the throat weeks earlier, would you say that thats just teenagers being a pain in the backside?
would you say that to the face of the old guy he had by the throat.
ScaryPoppins wrote:
I have been disgusted by most of the comments posted on here regarding a young teenage boy, being stabbed to death. I find it hard to believe that any adult with only a small amount of brain cells can actually think this boy deserved to die, and that this murderer should be charged with manslaughter I am presuming that your not white british citizens. Teenagers do drink and can be a pain in the backside they need sorting out not killing. I bet you wouldnt knock on his poor families door and say that to their face, your a disgrace. Get a life, If you havnt got anything decent to say, dont say it.Utter scum, your repulsive.
Scarypoppins have you read the last post by Farnworth Resident.
If what FR says is true about Holland having an old man by the throat weeks earlier, would you say that thats just teenagers being a pain in the backside?
would you say that to the face of the old guy he had by the throat.
Posted by: markjhassall, Cambridge on 7:31pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Let me make it clear to the people who talk abut drink this WAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DRINK FULL STOP THIS IS ABOUT ABOUT A MAN INTENDING TO HURT PEOPLE Andrew and Curtis where his victims In court today the Judge said that the drink was not responsible. Andrew did not do any harm to any one or old people. Stop peddling twaddle and have a thought for familiy. The only problem today was the Judge could not pass death sentence on the MURDERER and you can keep your dirty spiteful remarks about good young peoiple to your self. I can only hope that you do not suffer at the hands of one of these people who carry Knives, you petty minded, liberal losers. ONE day you will get your comments pushed so far up your ........ you will be sorry and then I can only hope that you wished you had voted for the death penalty for Murder and making the carrying of knives in public a crime. Help the police vote out people who don't do what the public wants.
Mean while respect all our young people who will play a part in a future society and remember they are a product of us all ! Perhaps the writers of the negative comments about Andrew and Curtis, have not got what it takes. Nature has left the tinture in the blood that would make the tyrants against the wrong people.
Let me make it clear to the people who talk abut drink this WAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DRINK FULL STOP THIS IS ABOUT ABOUT A MAN INTENDING TO HURT PEOPLE Andrew and Curtis where his victims In court today the Judge said that the drink was not responsible. Andrew did not do any harm to any one or old people. Stop peddling twaddle and have a thought for familiy. The only problem today was the Judge could not pass death sentence on the MURDERER and you can keep your dirty spiteful remarks about good young peoiple to your self. I can only hope that you do not suffer at the hands of one of these people who carry Knives, you petty minded, liberal losers. ONE day you will get your comments pushed so far up your ........ you will be sorry and then I can only hope that you wished you had voted for the death penalty for Murder and making the carrying of knives in public a crime. Help the police vote out people who don't do what the public wants.
Mean while respect all our young people who will play a part in a future society and remember they are a product of us all ! Perhaps the writers of the negative comments about Andrew and Curtis, have not got what it takes. Nature has left the tinture in the blood that would make the tyrants against the wrong people.
Posted by: boris, west sussex on 7:36pm Fri 22 Feb 08
markjhassall, Cambridge
Agreed. This is the real Boris, I will not post again on this thread, we have a nutter cloning many users, just check the first soccer story, the hijacker has cloned people on there. You cannot believe any post is genuine.
Last post, even if the chas clone reports.
markjhassall, Cambridge
Agreed. This is the real Boris, I will not post again on this thread, we have a nutter cloning many users, just check the first soccer story, the hijacker has cloned people on there. You cannot believe any post is genuine.
Last post, even if the chas clone reports.
Posted by: markjhassall, Cambridge on 7:38pm Fri 22 Feb 08
So in summary the young will have it and if we grown up's don't get it right then the following will be true. "Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." -- E.T. Bell
So in summary the young will have it and if we grown up's don't get it right then the following will be true. "Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." -- E.T. Bell
Posted by: markjhassall, Cambridge on 7:52pm Fri 22 Feb 08
the government often assists the amoral or the irresponsible by being suspiciously slow to ban behaviour that really ought to be forbidden. So Lets ban knives and treat people who kill people with the same rightful punishment We all have the vote ! It's great to be born free
the government often assists the amoral or the irresponsible by being suspiciously slow to ban behaviour that really ought to be forbidden. So Lets ban knives and treat people who kill people with the same rightful punishment We all have the vote ! It's great to be born free
Posted by: Farnworth resident, Plodder Lane area on 8:13pm Fri 22 Feb 08
As with many of the Politically correct, what this man from Cambridge is saying is utter bunkem. I hope for one minute you are not suggesting I am a liar ? You don't live round here so how the hell can you know just what the residents have had to put up with? Same you with you Boris.
I will be asking why the Jury were not given an option of Manslaughter.
All will come out in the end, I just hope to God idiots such as Boris and you, dont attempt to have this thread closed as has happened in so many instances.
In fact tonight, there are packs of these animals right now parading up and down Plodder Lane.
As with many of the Politically correct, what this man from Cambridge is saying is utter bunkem. I hope for one minute you are not suggesting I am a liar ? You don't live round here so how the hell can you know just what the residents have had to put up with? Same you with you Boris.
I will be asking why the Jury were not given an option of Manslaughter.
All will come out in the end, I just hope to God idiots such as Boris and you, dont attempt to have this thread closed as has happened in so many instances.
In fact tonight, there are packs of these animals right now parading up and down Plodder Lane.
Posted by: Farnworth resident, Plodder Lane area on 8:22pm Fri 22 Feb 08
markjhassall your not exactly impartial are you?
Remember writing this gush?
Last night we held candles for you Andy, A candle gives out light with out condition. Our love for you is unconditional. We know that you are at peace. We will remember you with Happiness and sadness; two tears that look the same but taste very different.
Mark and Family
markjhassall your not exactly impartial are you?
Remember writing this gush?
Last night we held candles for you Andy, A candle gives out light with out condition. Our love for you is unconditional. We know that you are at peace. We will remember you with Happiness and sadness; two tears that look the same but taste very different.
Mark and Family
Posted by: markjhassall, Cambridge on 8:49pm Fri 22 Feb 08
to arnworth resident, Plodder Lane area
No I,am not from your neck of the woods No ,Iam not impartial
Bless you and keep you and just remember what the power of kindness , and the influence of example you can bring........... you could also choke on yor own bile you sick twisted nobody.. be sheerful and strive to be happy
to arnworth resident, Plodder Lane area
No I,am not from your neck of the woods No ,Iam not impartial
Bless you and keep you and just remember what the power of kindness , and the influence of example you can bring........... you could also choke on yor own bile you sick twisted nobody.. be sheerful and strive to be happy
Posted by: markjhassall, Cambridge on 8:59pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Arguments for the death penalty.
Incapacitation of the criminal.
Capital punishment permanently removes the worst criminals from society and should prove much cheaper and safer for the rest of us than long term or permanent incarceration. It is self evident that dead criminals cannot commit any further crimes, either within prison or after escaping or being released from it.
Cost.
Money is not an inexhaustible commodity and the state may very well better spend our (limited) resources on the old, the young and the sick etc., rather than on the long term imprisonment of murderers, rapists, etc.
Anti-capital punishment campaigners in America cite the higher cost of executing someone over life in prison, but this (whilst true for America) has to do with the endless appeals and delays in carrying out death sentences that are allowed under the American legal system where the average time spent on death row is over 11 years. In Britain in the 20th century, the average time in the condemned cell was from 3 to 8 weeks and there was only one appeal.
Retribution.
Execution is a very real punishment rather than some form of "rehabilitative" treatment, the criminal is made to suffer in proportion to the offence. Although whether there is a place in a modern society for the old fashioned principal of "lex talens" (an eye for an eye), is a matter of personal opinion. Retribution is seen by many as an acceptable reason for the death penalty according to my survey results.
Arguments for the death penalty.
Incapacitation of the criminal.
Capital punishment permanently removes the worst criminals from society and should prove much cheaper and safer for the rest of us than long term or permanent incarceration. It is self evident that dead criminals cannot commit any further crimes, either within prison or after escaping or being released from it.
Cost.
Money is not an inexhaustible commodity and the state may very well better spend our (limited) resources on the old, the young and the sick etc., rather than on the long term imprisonment of murderers, rapists, etc.
Anti-capital punishment campaigners in America cite the higher cost of executing someone over life in prison, but this (whilst true for America) has to do with the endless appeals and delays in carrying out death sentences that are allowed under the American legal system where the average time spent on death row is over 11 years. In Britain in the 20th century, the average time in the condemned cell was from 3 to 8 weeks and there was only one appeal.
Retribution.
Execution is a very real punishment rather than some form of "rehabilitative" treatment, the criminal is made to suffer in proportion to the offence. Although whether there is a place in a modern society for the old fashioned principal of "lex talens" (an eye for an eye), is a matter of personal opinion. Retribution is seen by many as an acceptable reason for the death penalty according to my survey results.
Posted by: Zimmy on 9:31pm Fri 22 Feb 08
markjhassall you should get up here with your tambourine, you can stand at Hollands shrine humming while hugging the tree.
You need to open your eyes son and start wearing shoes, a typical nimby but a poncy one who thinks he's Morse.And if your so good, get up here and convert this scum but bring a stab jacket and a puke mask when they throw up all over you.
If this kid went round grabbing old men while streamin drunk and drugged and in your good book thats OK, you should have been in the dock with the arab as your a big part of the problem.
And the death penalty?Personally i dont agree but it's coming to a point where it has a place.
markjhassall you should get up here with your tambourine, you can stand at Hollands shrine humming while hugging the tree.
You need to open your eyes son and start wearing shoes, a typical nimby but a poncy one who thinks he's Morse.And if your so good, get up here and convert this scum but bring a stab jacket and a puke mask when they throw up all over you.
If this kid went round grabbing old men while streamin drunk and drugged and in your good book thats OK, you should have been in the dock with the arab as your a big part of the problem.
And the death penalty?Personally i dont agree but it's coming to a point where it has a place.
Posted by: ES, Bolton on 10:17pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Farnworth resident? You say you live in plodder lane? You seem to know such a lot about what goes on in your area and everything about this case and yet really you know nothing do you? Are you the curtain twitcher who talks but does nothing? I think so. You have proved it on here tonight. Repeating yourself over and over. Give it a rest.
Farnworth resident? You say you live in plodder lane? You seem to know such a lot about what goes on in your area and everything about this case and yet really you know nothing do you? Are you the curtain twitcher who talks but does nothing? I think so. You have proved it on here tonight. Repeating yourself over and over. Give it a rest.
Posted by: jessop, bolton on 10:18pm Fri 22 Feb 08
They might not have been saints but i dont think anyone deserves to die. The guy must have intended on using the knife thats why he brought it out with him it is about time they got tougher with knife crime. I am sure if i had stabbed someone the pizza would have been the last thing on my mind.
They might not have been saints but i dont think anyone deserves to die. The guy must have intended on using the knife thats why he brought it out with him it is about time they got tougher with knife crime. I am sure if i had stabbed someone the pizza would have been the last thing on my mind.
Posted by: ES, Bolton on 10:19pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Farnworth resident? You say you live in plodder lane? You seem to know such a lot about what goes on in your area and everything about this case and yet really you know nothing do you? Are you the curtain twitcher who talks but does nothing? I think so. You have proved it on here tonight. Repeating yourself over and over. Give it a rest.
Farnworth resident? You say you live in plodder lane? You seem to know such a lot about what goes on in your area and everything about this case and yet really you know nothing do you? Are you the curtain twitcher who talks but does nothing? I think so. You have proved it on here tonight. Repeating yourself over and over. Give it a rest.
Posted by: Farnworth resident, Plodder Lane area on 10:40pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Give it a rest? We've not even begun and if you cant hack it, get out now.It's scum like you and a few others who's made Farnworth the mess it is today.
Give it a rest? We've not even begun and if you cant hack it, get out now.It's scum like you and a few others who's made Farnworth the mess it is today.
Posted by: Zimmy on 10:50pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Resident, ES is an old git frequents De Vere hotels flogging stuff if you know what i mean.all the arseholes will try stuff you up son, seen it before but the zimmers back bigger and better than ever, eh boris and chas.
Resident, ES is an old git frequents De Vere hotels flogging stuff if you know what i mean.all the arseholes will try stuff you up son, seen it before but the zimmers back bigger and better than ever, eh boris and chas.
Posted by: only me, farnworth on 10:59pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[bold]I too live in Farnworth, I do not know what went on that night and know people who knew the lads who were stabbed and by all accounts they were far from angels.
Firstly I think he did not deserve to die.
I also think that people who claim they know the real story are liars apart from those that were present that night, anyone else, including parents and families all involved only know what they have been told whether truth or lie by the other possibly intoxicated children that were there that night.
Those there that night will all collectively tell the same story to make their friend look like a Saint.
Purely based upon numbers of friends of the murderer and the victim, the murderer will not be able to prove whether he was acting in self defence as he stated, as he is outnumbered by witnesses of victim who as mentioned before collectively may tell the truth or lie to protect their murdered friend.
I hope that what has happened to this lad will be a lesson to all his friends, unfortunately I very much doubt it will.
Based purely on what I have read in the BN you can pick holes in the stories provided from both sides, from the friendly hand gestures given by the victim to the reason for being equiped with a knife by the convicted.
Lessons need to be learnt.[/bold]
I too live in Farnworth, I do not know what went on that night and know people who knew the lads who were stabbed and by all accounts they were far from angels.
Firstly I think he did not deserve to die.
I also think that people who claim they know the real story are liars apart from those that were present that night, anyone else, including parents and families all involved only know what they have been told whether truth or lie by the other possibly intoxicated children that were there that night.
Those there that night will all collectively tell the same story to make their friend look like a Saint.
Purely based upon numbers of friends of the murderer and the victim, the murderer will not be able to prove whether he was acting in self defence as he stated, as he is outnumbered by witnesses of victim who as mentioned before collectively may tell the truth or lie to protect their murdered friend.
I hope that what has happened to this lad will be a lesson to all his friends, unfortunately I very much doubt it will.
Based purely on what I have read in the BN you can pick holes in the stories provided from both sides, from the friendly hand gestures given by the victim to the reason for being equiped with a knife by the convicted.
Lessons need to be learnt. Posted by: Bilbo Joe, Ont' pewt on 11:00pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Farnworth resident[/bold] wrote:
Before you all start with your gushing sentimentality's. Spare a thought for the old folk terrorised by this gang not long previously, they've been forgotten.[/quote] Well, it took me a couple of re-reads to realise that that said shitbags were being referred to by their Christian names.
Farnworth resident wrote:
Before you all start with your gushing sentimentality's. Spare a thought for the old folk terrorised by this gang not long previously, they've been forgotten.
Well, it took me a couple of re-reads to realise that that said shitbags were being referred to by their Christian names.
Posted by: Zimmy on 11:06pm Fri 22 Feb 08
Nice one only me.
Posted by: only me, farnworth on 11:18pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Zimmy[/bold] wrote:
Nice one only me.[/quote] [bold]Thanks Zimmy, it was mainly based on observations of the stories printed in the BN about this event over the last couple of weeks, and things that just don't add up from those who witnessed it.
Hopefully the BN will print something factual about the victims not exactly being angels now the trial is over.[/bold]
Zimmy wrote:
Nice one only me.
Thanks Zimmy, it was mainly based on observations of the stories printed in the BN about this event over the last couple of weeks, and things that just don't add up from those who witnessed it.
Hopefully the BN will print something factual about the victims not exactly being angels now the trial is over. Posted by: Zimmy on 11:27pm Fri 22 Feb 08
We live in hope "Only".
Of course it's very sad there is a death involved but they shouldn't make martyrs of these kids.Why should bad behaviour be swept under the carpet?
We live in hope "Only".
Of course it's very sad there is a death involved but they shouldn't make martyrs of these kids.Why should bad behaviour be swept under the carpet?
Posted by: emma, bolton on 11:43pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]ES[/bold] wrote:
Farnworth resident? You say you live in plodder lane? You seem to know such a lot about what goes on in your area and everything about this case and yet really you know nothing do you? Are you the curtain twitcher who talks but does nothing? I think so. You have proved it on here tonight. Repeating yourself over and over. Give it a rest.[/quote] ES you call FR a 'Curtain Twitcher' I bet Gary Newloves family wishes he'd just 'twitched the curtains' and did nothing eh?
ES wrote:
Farnworth resident? You say you live in plodder lane? You seem to know such a lot about what goes on in your area and everything about this case and yet really you know nothing do you? Are you the curtain twitcher who talks but does nothing? I think so. You have proved it on here tonight. Repeating yourself over and over. Give it a rest.
ES you call FR a 'Curtain Twitcher' I bet Gary Newloves family wishes he'd just 'twitched the curtains' and did nothing eh?
Posted by: Sun Tzu on 11:53pm Fri 22 Feb 08
If we continue to allow unpunished, free reign to feral youths, then it will only be a matter of time before everyone will need to go out tooled up just in case.
What if Gary Newlove had taken a knife with him, when he went out to confront the youths which kicked him to death?
He may have justified doing so with the thought that he could protect himself from being killed if things turned ugly.
If he had killed one of those youths, would he now be serving a 19 year jail sentence?
Maksoudian shouldn't have been carrying a knife, but may have been killed himself if not.
Holland and his chums should have been brought under control sooner, then maybe they wouldn't have been looking for trouble.
Too many concessions have been given to the liberal do-gooders. These well meaning fools have done away with punishment in the naive hope that everyone conforms to their way of thinking.
In reality certain elements of society just see this as weakness and will exploit it to the limit. These kind of people only understand punishment which hurts.
It's time society claimed the streets back for society and in order to do this we need to come down hard on those who think they can have all the benefits of society but none of the responsibility that goes with it.
If we continue to allow unpunished, free reign to feral youths, then it will only be a matter of time before everyone will need to go out tooled up just in case.
What if Gary Newlove had taken a knife with him, when he went out to confront the youths which kicked him to death?
He may have justified doing so with the thought that he could protect himself from being killed if things turned ugly.
If he had killed one of those youths, would he now be serving a 19 year jail sentence?
Maksoudian shouldn't have been carrying a knife, but may have been killed himself if not.
Holland and his chums should have been brought under control sooner, then maybe they wouldn't have been looking for trouble.
Too many concessions have been given to the liberal do-gooders. These well meaning fools have done away with punishment in the naive hope that everyone conforms to their way of thinking.
In reality certain elements of society just see this as weakness and will exploit it to the limit. These kind of people only understand punishment which hurts.
It's time society claimed the streets back for society and in order to do this we need to come down hard on those who think they can have all the benefits of society but none of the responsibility that goes with it.
Posted by: John Rambo on 12:14am Sat 23 Feb 08
Sun, I enjoy reading your posts, most sensible.
You may be interested to read the most read comment section on the MEN, regarding Mr. Newloves killers.It quite simply beggars belief.
Sun, I enjoy reading your posts, most sensible.
You may be interested to read the most read comment section on the MEN, regarding Mr. Newloves killers.It quite simply beggars belief.
Posted by: NRG, Lancs on 12:19am Sat 23 Feb 08
I've only read about the antics of these youths and have no idea how much truth there is in the comments.
But I have to say that a murder conviction is rather surprising.
I've only read about the antics of these youths and have no idea how much truth there is in the comments.
But I have to say that a murder conviction is rather surprising.
Posted by: Sun Tzu on 12:21am Sat 23 Feb 08
[quote][bold]John Rambo[/bold] wrote:
Sun, I enjoy reading your posts, most sensible.
You may be interested to read the most read comment section on the MEN, regarding Mr. Newloves killers.It quite simply beggars belief.[/quote] Thanks John. I hear your latest outing has a higher body count than a night out in Brixton.
John Rambo wrote:
Sun, I enjoy reading your posts, most sensible.
You may be interested to read the most read comment section on the MEN, regarding Mr. Newloves killers.It quite simply beggars belief.
Thanks John. I hear your latest outing has a higher body count than a night out in Brixton.
Posted by: John Rambo on 12:27am Sat 23 Feb 08
Yes, but only the bad guys, sounds like you need me in Bolton for a day or three.
Like many, I never wanted a war when I got home.But they pushed me and I gave them a war they'll never forget.Seems it may catch on.
Yes, but only the bad guys, sounds like you need me in Bolton for a day or three.
Like many, I never wanted a war when I got home.But they pushed me and I gave them a war they'll never forget.Seems it may catch on.
Posted by: Whos Daddy, f/w on 12:38am Sat 23 Feb 08
the plastic gangstas of farnworth got wat they deserved. fair enough mr mahmud shud of not had a knife on him,but how do we know, all we know he prob been attacked by some1 b4, so therfore he must of trhough caryyin a knife at all times was neccessary i dont blame the guy , the three scrouts tried pickin on him cz he was foriegn, n thought to be a easy target.
jus put ur self in mahmuds shoes at tym of murder and honestly say wud of not used the knife if u had it.
iu dnt think mahmud should of be given such a sentence cz he obviousli he aint mentalli ill that he gna atack the scruffs for nothin,and im sure he must of jus ment hurt n not kill them.
he prob did think he only thought them a lesson so thats y he was still waitin for his pizza.
at end of day mahmud was wd his girl so must of thought he was responsible for protectin her, cz i tell u 1 thing, i wud same as mahmud to protect my other half.
ps. b4 one of the t.u.r.d.s accuse me being a racist or backin up mahmud i am whiter n dnt know mahmud to back him up.
this is self defence n no way murder..............
..... ......
i can carry on for eva , but it dnt make as difference wat any of say
the plastic gangstas of farnworth got wat they deserved. fair enough mr mahmud shud of not had a knife on him,but how do we know, all we know he prob been attacked by some1 b4, so therfore he must of trhough caryyin a knife at all times was neccessary i dont blame the guy , the three scrouts tried pickin on him cz he was foriegn, n thought to be a easy target.
jus put ur self in mahmuds shoes at tym of murder and honestly say wud of not used the knife if u had it.
iu dnt think mahmud should of be given such a sentence cz he obviousli he aint mentalli ill that he gna atack the scruffs for nothin,and im sure he must of jus ment hurt n not kill them.
he prob did think he only thought them a lesson so thats y he was still waitin for his pizza.
at end of day mahmud was wd his girl so must of thought he was responsible for protectin her, cz i tell u 1 thing, i wud same as mahmud to protect my other half.
ps. b4 one of the t.u.r.d.s accuse me being a racist or backin up mahmud i am whiter n dnt know mahmud to back him up.
this is self defence n no way murder..............
..... ......
i can carry on for eva , but it dnt make as difference wat any of say
Posted by: Whos Daddy, f/w on 12:45am Sat 23 Feb 08
sorry for text messaginging lingo as i was layin down and writing
sorry for text messaginging lingo as i was layin down and writing
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 12:52am Sat 23 Feb 08
get him a card readey for his 40th,and a cake delivered,with an saw in the middle,
get him a card readey for his 40th,and a cake delivered,with an saw in the middle,
Posted by: Marty Hopkins, Farnworth on 1:04am Sat 23 Feb 08
I always thought murder was proven or had to be proven as premeditated? This doesn't appear to have been to me.
I always thought murder was proven or had to be proven as premeditated? This doesn't appear to have been to me.
Posted by: ParizFootball, London on 2:03am Sat 23 Feb 08
To many people posting:
[bold]Did you read the testimony of the witness?[/bold]
[quote]Miss Shields said: He the defendant was aggressive. He just seemed weird when he was in the shop anyway. It was just the way he looked at us.
It is sad that the boy died, but it is horrible how race was a factor in this case.
I think any adult knows that there is always a better way to deal with a situation.
[bold]However[/bold] ,
when you have a child punch you in the face YOU WILL GET AGGRESSIVE:
[quote]Miss Shields said that Maksoudian was taller and bigger than the teenager, she added: "Two lads came running over, and the smallest one of them punched the defendant in the face, but he had to jump up to do it.[/quote]
To many people posting:
Did you read the testimony of the witness?
Miss Shields said: He the defendant was aggressive. He just seemed weird when he was in the shop anyway. It was just the way he looked at us.
It is sad that the boy died, but it is horrible how race was a factor in this case.
I think any adult knows that there is always a better way to deal with a situation.
However ,
when you have a child punch you in the face YOU WILL GET AGGRESSIVE:
Miss Shields said that Maksoudian was taller and bigger than the teenager, she added: "Two lads came running over, and the smallest one of them punched the defendant in the face, but he had to jump up to do it.
Posted by: ParizFootball, London on 2:16am Sat 23 Feb 08
[italic]A TEENAGER who was stabbed to death in a row outside a takeaway had been listening to music and drinking cider with friends just moments earlier, a court heard.[/italic]
Another news article tells how one of the girls hanging out with the teenagers testified in court that the boys were drinking cider.
Why didn't this Maksoudian person recognize 5 teenagers out having a drink.
Any adult would have!
Then again he is only 22... not any more mature.
I can't understand how this case seems to be one sided evidence from the teenagers point of view. The courts, the media, and the opinions of the world are always GANG UP ON SOMEONE.. .. and the person that wrote the racist remarks up above shouldn't talk about "foreigners" if they don't even know the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE.
If you don't know ENGLISH THE LANGUAGE stop boasting how you are ENGLISH.
A TEENAGER who was stabbed to death in a row outside a takeaway had been listening to music and drinking cider with friends just moments earlier, a court heard.
Another news article tells how one of the girls hanging out with the teenagers testified in court that the boys were drinking cider.
Why didn't this Maksoudian person recognize 5 teenagers out having a drink.
Any adult would have!
Then again he is only 22... not any more mature.
I can't understand how this case seems to be one sided evidence from the teenagers point of view. The courts, the media, and the opinions of the world are always GANG UP ON SOMEONE.. .. and the person that wrote the racist remarks up above shouldn't talk about "foreigners" if they don't even know the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE.
If you don't know ENGLISH THE LANGUAGE stop boasting how you are ENGLISH.
